The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline Steering has me confused

I hope this makes sense because I am thoroughly confused. I'm driving a '59 Apache 32 with original everything. I started researching my steering issues here and I think I am having an issue with bump steering. When I hit a bump (especially at higher speeds) my truck seems to have a mind of its own and it will veer one way or another. Most of what I could find talked about how the geometry changes when axles are lowered or modified. My truck has the original solid front axle, but my drag link does not appear to be level.

To make matters more confusing, where the pitman arm connects to the drag link is only about 2 inches above my axle. I was speculating that when I hit a bump and my suspension compresses, that my axle might actually be contacting the drag link and causing the problem. I'm not sure if that is normally that close.

Finally, I've checked my tie rods ends, pitman arm, drag link, and king pins and they all seem to be in good shape and have no slop that I can find. I have heard that you can't always tell though and that they might be worth changing anyway.

I hope all this makes sense. I guess I'm just not sure where to concentrate my efforts at. I'd really like to be able to hit the highway this summer.......safely! Thanks in advance for all input.

It sounds like someone has removed a few spring leaves to simulate a dropped axle. How much room is there between the axle and the bump stops on the frame, or are they there at all? The drag link should be approximately parallel to the ground with the vehicle at normal ride height. How does the front/rear attitude compare? Check out some of the trucks similar to yours in the photo gallery to get an idea what a normal ride height compared to "lowered" looks like.
Jerry

I'm not too far away from you (over by Seatac airport) and have a set of stock springs on an axle. I bought it to put it on my 59 Suburban but sold it before I did anything with it so they are just sitting here in the yard. There are 6 leafs in the stack. How many leafs are in your spring stack?

So I've got some amplifying information. I just crawled under the truck and got some new info that I didn't have before.

-My drag link is approx. 3" out of level, with the pitman arm end being the higher one. Seems quite excessive to me.

-There is approx. 3 1/2" between the axle and the bump stop.

-I have 8 leaf springs up front.

-I don't know why I said I had a close gap between the axle and pitman arm/draglink joint. I meant to say the joint between the drag link and "steering arm." (Not sure if that's the right term.) Also, it's closer to 1" than 2".

-Also, not sure if these are standard lengths, but pitman arm center-to-center is approx. 6" and the drag link c-to-c is approx. 15 1/2".

The truck seems to sit like other trucks with that body style. I've got pics in my signature line. Thanks again.

if you stand on the front bumper and bounce on it (my need a couple guys, depending on how stiff the front end is), does your steering wheel twist quite a bit?

It's beginning to sound like you've got a bent or incorrect steering arm, the one that bolts to the spindle at the left front wheel. It's what the forward end of the drag link is attached to. Is it bolted to the top or the bottom of the spindle?
Jerry

Mike - I tried your bumper bounce test. My steering wheel definitely moved. I'm thinking about 5-10 degrees.

Jerry - The steering arm is bolted to the bottom of the spindle. It doesn't appear to be misshapen or deformed at all. Your question did make me search some more on the internet for a picture of one to compare it to. I found this one:

http://image.hotrod.com/f/31509175+q80+re0+cr1+ar0/1101clt_07_o%2b1959_chevy_apache%2bspindle.jpg

That also is a '59 Apache in the picture. It looks the same, but with a couple of notable exceptions. My steering arm is not shaped like that. The half that drops down to meet the tie rod is just like mine, but the half that meets the drag link is much, much higher than mine. On mine, both halves of the steering arm sit at about the same height. Subsequently, my drag link is nowhere near as level as seen in that picture.

So now I'm wondering where my steering arm came from. Also, is the drag link correct? If the steering arm sat higher, then my drag link would be too long.

I've got a 59 Burb stashed away behind the barn with all-original front suspension and steering. It might take a day or two with a weed eater to get close enough to take some pictures, but if you don't find an answer soon I might be able to do that. The axle in your picture has a LOT of drop, probably 3" or more. so I don't believe the steering linkage is anywhere near original.

Have you checked for center point on the steering gear? Turn the steering wheel lock to lock and count back halfway, then look at where the front wheels are pointed. Once the drag link is level, I believe you'll find you've been running WAY off center of the steering gear.
Jerry

This is all great info. I REALLY appreciate it.

Since my last post I've been doing some more digging. I found a picture right here at stovebolt that shows what my axle drop looks like and how my steering arm sits just above it. It's an older model, but it looks the same from what I can tell.

http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/images/draglink_adjustable_c.jpg

So, I'm not familiar with how the pitman arm attaches to the steering gears. Does it have to be at a set angle or is the angle created based on where it links up with the drag link? I'm wondering if maybe my drag link is too long, or my pitman arm is too short, and that is creating the poor drag link angle.

I did do a center point check last year and the wheels appeared to be straight. I think you are dead on though. Once I figure out what is going on and get that drag link leveled, it's going to be way off!

Here's some shots of my '55 3200.
[IMG]http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk203/Longbox55/100_2925_zpsjzuavqgn.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk203/Longbox55/100_2926_zpsa8ekb2vg.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk203/Longbox55/100_2927_zpsvfomu0ww.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk203/Longbox55/100_2928_zpsikjrxbju.jpg[/IMG]
The suspension is essentially stock, no dropped axle or leaves removed. Other than a little wander from insufficient caster (an issue I intend to fix once I find the right axle shims), there are no bump steer problems.
Jerry, if you can get those pics of your Suburban, I would like to see them as well, if only for comparison.

Bill - Thanks for the pics. It's nice to have something to compare to. Looks just like mine, except my drag link has a bit more of an angle on it. Just out of curiosity, how much play do you have in your steering wheel? I've been slowing trying to tweak my truck in just the way I want it, but on some items I'm not sure how much improvement can be made. These are old trucks and I've been trying to keep mine as stock as possible. Anyway, just curious. Thanks again.

I'm not Bill, but here's the way I learned to check steering centering and free play over 50 years ago. It still works.

The adjustment is sensitive enough that it cannot be done with the drag link connected to the Pitman arm, so disconnect one end or the other. Turn the steering wheel lock to lock, and count the turns. Return the wheel to exactly halfway of its travel. Now, turn the wheel 90 degrees off the center point and attach an inch-lb. torque wrench to the center nut of the steering wheel. Turn the wheel through center, and observe any torque change as it goes over center. Adjust the sector preload adjuster on the opposite side of the steering gear from the Pitman arm until the turning torque increases 10 in/lbs. as the gear rocks over center. At this point, there should be zero free play with the steering gear centered. Reconnect the Pitman arm and look for free movement at both ends of the Pitman arm and the tie rod ends. Also check for movement of the spindles at the top and bottom king pin bushings.

Always begin checking for steering slack by adjusting the sector preload. DO NOT SKIP THIS STEP!
Jerry

Jerry - Roger that. That adjustment is one of the top items on my "to do" list in the coming month. I promise not to skip that step.

By the way, were you in the auto industry at some point or are these trucks just a hobby? Thanks again! Very much appreciated.

I taught auto mechanics for 30-something years, after being a line mechanic and shop owner off and on since the early 1960's. I grew up around the best independent auto shop in Nashville Tennessee in the 1950's.
Jerry

That's really cool. Did you specialize in Chevys or a bit of everything?

I'm actually going to Nashville this August. Anything that I need to see/eat while I'm there? Emphasis on the eating. Right now, the Johnny Cash museum is pretty high on my list.

Something else to check, in addition to the steering box adjustment Jerry mentions, is the preload on the tie rods if you are still running the original style. If the preload isn't right, that can also cause problems.
The adjustment is quite easy, though you will need to get a drag link socket (I forget the size) which basically looks like a large slotted style screwdriver. To adjust the preload, you need to remove the cotter pin from the tie rod housing. Then the end plug needs to be tightened until it can't be turned in any further, which means the spring is fully compressed. The plug is then turned back to the first cotter pin hole, and a new cotter pin is installed. This needs to be done on both sides, and the toe will need to be rechecked afterwards.

What Bill said.
Also, while you have the threaded plug out, check for egg-shaped ball ends and worn out ball seats.
Carl

If you like southern fried chicken, try the Loveless Café. It's on Highway 100 about 15 miles south of Nashville. Uncle Bud's catfish is another "must have", and there are numerous places to get pulled pork barbecue. Try Jim and Nick's BBQ on Charlotte Avenue.

Drop me a PM when you're on the way, and maybe we can do a quick meet & greet. My farm is about 65 miles south of Nashville, but that's just a nice ride up I-65 on the Gold Wing.
Jerry