The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline Propeller shaft rubs new okie bushing

I have been fighting a propeller shaft problem for years now on my 1950 3100. Have owned the truck for 28 years and this is my second okie bushing/prop-shaft combination. The problem is the clearance between the front bushing and the prop-shaft is too tight on the high side of the shaft. When the shaft spins it scores around the shaft. I have had the prop shaft on the bench on centers and have gotten it to within .003 but that doesn't fix the problem. I am thinking that the outer shaft might have a bend in it, but I have no idea how to determine that. My last resort is to find a replacement torque tube assembly and give that a shot. Has anyone out there dealt with this problem? Thanks for any suggestions.

I recently shortened a torque tube, which needed straightening after the shortening. An I beam, chains and a jack can fix the problem.

Any other ideas, Anyone?

"Measure twice- - -cut once!". Set the torque tube up on a set of V blocks and use a dial indicator to check for runout, then straighten it as required. There are no shortcuts in a situation like this, and our WAG's aren't any better than anyone else's. Dave has a good point.
Jerry

I think the reason you've been having problems.
Is because your 1950 torque tube is ether a 1st design (slip fit) or a 2nd design (press fit).
Sometime in 1950 GM changed the bushings from slip fit to press fit.
To tell the difference the slip fit bushings were held in place with a dowel pin and the press fit were not.
--------------------Rear Yoke Bushing..--Propeller Shaft Bushing
----------------------I.D.Front O.D. ------ I.D.Rear O.D.
1948-EARLY 1950, 1.350---1.720--------1.070--1.685, Slip fit Dowel Pin
Late 1950,----------1.350---1.719--------1.070--1.687, Press Fit
1951-1954,---------1.350---1.773--------1.070--1.725, Press Fit

The above bushing dimensions show the Rear Propeller Shaft bushing I.D. did not change from 1948 to 1954.
But the O.D. did.
Maybe the whole Okie bushing Assembly is turning inside the torque tube. Read number 5
Torque tube housing inside dimensions did have variations.

Call these guys http://nwtparts.com/ Ask for John, tell him what's going on, he has probably encounter this problem before. Smart Dude
Or These guys http://www.vapinc.com/ they make most of the Okie Bushing Assembly's

The problem is ether a:
Bent torque tube housing
Bent Propeller Shaft
Turning Okie Bushing Assembly
Incorrect bushing size
Lack of lubrication

When you installed Okie Bushing Assembly did you remove the
original rear propeller shaft bushing and oil seal ?

If you have the propeller shaft on the bench you could slide the Okie
Bushing Assembly onto the propeller shaft and insert the U-joint rear yoke onto the propeller shaft.
Like This Rotate the Okie Bushing Assembly to see if there is any binding or slop.

I took the torque tube apart, removed the old seal and bushings to ensure everything was clean and free of burrs. I checked runnout of propeller shaft with a dial indicator and brought it to within .003" using heat. The design is press fit (no dowel pin), and the okie bushing was not spinning in the tube. I checked fit of bushing prior to assembly and lubed the heck out of it. The only thing left that I can think is that the torque is bent, and I can't see any way to accurately get that within specs with the thousandths of an inch that it is out. I've straightened many things with chains, an ibeam and a jack, but that method is a little severe when dealing with a few thousandths of an inch. I guess it's time for a new torque tube assembly.

Man I wish I had that info Jord listed. The first time I tried hammering in my Okie bushing it only went about 3/4 of the way in when it just stopped going in. I had to knock it back out and grind a few thousands off to finally get it to go all the way in. But back to opie's problem, when I tested the okie on the drive shaft it was realy tite and binding. I probably spent a half hour running a brake cyl hone in and out of the okie before it felt smooth and free.

Good idea, Bicounty. I'll give that a try.

Jorb, do you have detailed bushing dimensions for a 1937 1/2 ton? I can't find a new oakie and have found some nos bushings on line. Do you know the OEM part numbers I should be looking for for the forward yoke bushing, the first, or front driveshaft bushing and the seal just behind that bushing? If anyone has info on part numbers and where to get them I sure would appreciate it.

I recently installed an Oakie bushing in my 38 Master. I had to use a lot of force for the last inch or so. I used an old yoke, a heavy slab of steel and a sledge hammer. The car is on the road now and runs fine. Neither the yoke or the driveshaft was binding on the Oakie assembly.

Click on C h e v r o L E E
Then click 1921-54 1/2 Ton Truck
Look at left column, Locate 1937-1939,
Look to right, Under "1/2 TON", Front (8), Rear (9)
Now scroll down, Under TABLE NUMBER look for
Number 8
Front bushing, I.D. is 1.350, O.D. is 1.720
Now number 9
Rear Bushing, I.D. is 1.032, O.D. is 1.680

It is interesting that the inside dimensions of the front and rear bushing are different.
Another words the outside dimension of the rear U-Joint yoke, does not match the (smaller) outside dimension of the propeller shaft.
No harm in that, that is just the way GM engineered it .

So the nos bushing I found on eBay meet those dimensions exactly, 1.68 and 1.72. However,while I have not removed the existing bushings, it looks like the id of the torque tube is around 1.501 to 1.502. I can't imagine I will get the bushings pressed into the tube with this much of an interference. Is it normal to machine the bearings to fit the tube dimensions??? I thought I read the early bushings were a slip fit with a staked pin.

35truck,

Just to be clear we are talking about a 1937 Chevrolet 1/2 ton truck.

According to:
1929 - 1957 Chevrolet Master Parts & Accessories Catalog
Group # 5.451
1937-39 Passenger, Commercial, Rear Bushing, Part # 595005
O.D. 1 17/32 or 1.53125

C h e v r o L E E Rear Bushing Data
O.D. 1 17/25 or 1.680

1.680 minus 1.53125 = 0.14875, That is just over an 1/8th of a inch.
That does seem to be a lot to machine off, to make it fit.
And those bushing were slip fit and dowel pinned in place.

I do not know the accuracy of the C h e v r o L E E data but the Master Parts Cat. data seem closer to the I.D. of the torque tube housing.
1.53125 minus 1.501 = 0.03025, Which is like 1/32nd of a inch. with that the bushing would slip fit in.

Master Parts Cat. does not show a O.D. for front Bushing part # 595007

1938 bushing illustration
Chevrolet's 1938 Shop Manual Replacing Bushings & oil seal
Propeller shaft Bushing replacement
There is no mention of machining bushings so they fit torque tube housing.

In conclusion I would use bushings that are close to your torque tube housing I.D.
Tip. After the bushings are installed, slide ball housing over end of torque tube housing to check for binding.

Do you have the link to the eBay bushings?
Did you find a oil seal?
How did you measure the inside of your torque tube?

Jorb . I'll try to answer your three questions first and may be able to send some detailed photos

By the cast numbers it should be a 37 truck
I purchased the bearings on eBay and am relatively sure they are 595005 and 595007 the odds and id's match chevrolet dimension

The rubber seal came with one of the two sets of front and rear bearings I purchased on eBay. Because they were so cheap, I purchased two, the second when the first sets ods seemed to large for the id of my torque tube

I haven't pulled the drive shaft so I'm estimating the id of the torque tube. It's close to 1.5 and might be a little larger, but not much. The od of the torque tube is 1.73, so if the tube thickness is 1/16 than the tube is 1.73 - .125 or about 1.6. The rear bushing od is 1.68 so it's .08 larger. That would be a hard push into the tube, if at all.
The front bushing is 1.72 and if i can get you the picture, you can see it od is the exact od of the torque tube.


Right now I will send this post and figure out how to attach pictures in the next post.

Jorb , here are some pics of the bushings and my torque tube

Http://www.hainscou.17589@upload.photo bucket.com

link does not work

I tried something and it worked.
I looked at my own photobucket link below and replaced "jorb1" with "hainscou"
And I got 35truck's bad link to work.

jorb link
http://s1050.photobucket.com/user/jorb1/library/?sort=3&page=1

35truck link
http://s1146.photobucket.com/user/Hainscou/library/?sort=3&page=1

I have to say I have never seen a elongated slot cut into the torque tube housing.
Maybe someone knows why it is there.

You should look at this Item # 595005B 37-39 it is a Okie bushing assembly for your year of truck.
You could call them and ask what the O.D. is.

I know the slot was used through 1936.
The slot gave you access to drive the rear bushing out.

Thanks guys. The filling station has a tech article that shows the slot on a 30-33 passenger and tells how to drill out the pin and drive the bushing with a punch through the slot. I assumed they all had a slot . I'm pretty sure the rear is a 37, but not positive. Cast number 377707 on one side, and a 2 on the other. I got feedback from someone that it was a 37. Looks like jim carter may have some new oakie bushings just in for a 37. I will check tomorrow on availability and if they are available, the oKies dimensions.

By the way, thanks on fixing the photo snafu . I'm a newbie with that. Did all the pictures upload??

1929 - 1954 Master Parts and Accessories Catalog link
Group number 5.504 Carrier Assembly
1937-38 COMM. cast 377707, (tube 55 53/64" long), part # 602447 === Looks like you have a 1937-38 torque tube.
How to measure torque tube

Are these all of the pictures?
http://s1146.photobucket.com/user/Hainscou/library/Mobile%20Uploads
Six total one Duplicate

The Filling Station’s
Chevrolet Tech Article
Torque Tube Bushing Replacement Shows elongated slot on Torque Tube
The benefit of this was the ability to replace bushings & oil seal while Torque Tube remained in truck.
My hunch is the reason they did away with the slot was to eliminate oil leaks or to gain strength in the Torque Tube.

1934 Chevrolet Repair Manual
Slot in Torque tube Lower RH corner of page.

Just curious is that slot on the top side of the Torque tube? Meaning: Facing the floor of the cab.

I do have more photos I could upload to photo bucket. Did you think they provide additional help?

info posted here was a repete so I removed it...

Mike B

The slot is in the top center line of the tube. On another note, jim carter parts had new oakie bushings just in. I purchased one and should get it by Friday. Of note, the od at the front is 1.72 and at the rear is 1.68, which is in concert with the nos bushings I have and the info from the chevrolee database exactly. They measured it while I was on the phone. Am going to pull the old bearings and get an exact torque tube id. Right now my guess is 1.5 to 1.6 inch. Will have a shop machine it close to the tube dimensions to get a good interference fit, but not so tight I have to force it and maybe do damage. Can't figure out why the dimensions differ if I really have a 37 rear end.

WhAt's interesting is the manual does not describe removal of the forward universal bushing before you remove the rear driveshaft bushing. This is what I think confuses most new comers o the description of the "front" and "rear" bushings . It sure confused me. what I thought was the front bushing wa not the universal bushing, but whAt is really the rear bushing. through much reading, help from everyone on this site and the vcca forum I now realize what I thought was a sleeve, is the forward bushing (which supports both the universal and the drive shaft).

Okie Bushing History
The Okie bushing was created by the long gone National Machine Works Inc in Oklahoma, hence the name Okie.
It shortened the time and effort to repair the torque tube bushings and oil seal.
If you did it the way GM did it, you would remove the entire torque tube from the rear axle.
Remove ring & pinion gears
Pull out the driveshaft from the torque tube.
Use special tools to remove and replace the bushings and oil seal.
Then reassemble everything. Pain in the Butt.
With the Okie bushing you just pull out the front bushing.
Then from the front of the torque tube you push in the Okie bushing sleeve, which has the Front bushing,
Rear bushing & Oil seal inside the sleeve. Less Work.
My Okie Bushing Photo Album

Nice write up On The Okie Bushing By tclederman

Here is the update on my drive shaft bushing replacement journey, I removed the driveshaft and the original front and rear bushings, I purchased and received a new Okie bushing from jim carter. I'll post some pictures, but here is what I've got. The shaft tube dimensions after removing the bushings, front to rear, are as follows; 1.493, 1.478 and 1.461. The okie bushing ods, front and rear, are 1.720 and 1.68. Obviously the okie won't go, so I'm going to return the okie to carter and have the rearbushing machined to fit the 1.461 tube id. The front bushing that I removed, can be saved , has good clearances and I will replace it. The only thing i'm struggling with is the oil seal. I've purchased a national seal and have a skf on order (10515) but both have an od of 1.500. I'm going to drive one of those seals into the 1.461 but I'm not sure it will go in without damage. I could go with a hand made cork seal, like the one I removed, but that will be the last resort (I think).
Anyway, anybody got any ideas why the torque tube I have has such a small diameter??Any tips on getting the seal into the tube ???

I added some photos in photo bucket that show the okie has the same or as my torque tube, and shows the bushings, front is bronze , and rear, with the two grooves and the cork remnants I removed.

My guess is GM was in the transition process of changing Torque Tube I.D. from older to newer.
If you are not going to use the Okie Bushing, and you are going use the original setup.
There are special tool to install the oil seal and bushings.
I would go with the rubber oil seal.
The tool is a Kent-Moore J-968 Propeller Shaft Bushing and Oil Seal Replacer.
Check HERE..About have way down on page. They might rent them. picture of tool

Chevrolet's 1938 Shop Manual Read:Propeller Shaft Bushing and Oil Seal Replacement.

Call these guys They seem to know more about that year of truck.

Was just the CORK oil seal inside the torque tube and no Metal washer retainer Fig. 32.
There should have been (in the order of what is installed first)
Washer retainer
Cork oil seal
Rear bushing for propeller shaft.
Front bushing for rear U-joint yoke.

If you use the rubber oil seal there is no need for the Washer retainer.
Note: This SIDE of the oil seal should be installed facing toward the axle.
And should be driven in until it stops at the seat inside the torque tube.

Jorb, there was a metal washer also, just like in the manual section you pointed to. I'm still waiting on a second set of oil seals to see if they will fit as the first set is to large. I've Mic'd the inner (rear) bushing torque tube id at 1.459 and the forward bushing torque tube id at 1.496. The national oil seal I have, part no. 471076V is 1.575 od. Thats to large to drive into the bore. I have an nos okie bushing (eBay) on order for 33-36. By description, the forward and rear od's sound like this okie will fit.my torque tube. My fingers are crossed for now. I'll follow up when I get all the parts in and see what, if anyThing fits.

Here is the latest. I have both a nos national okie bushing from around the 40s or 50s and the 1936 gm forward and rear bushings that came in a set on eBay. The gm bushings fit perfectly. The okie bushing od would need to be machined to fit the tube. I'm going with the nos gm bushings. I found that a 26x37x7 mm seal works perfectly. The only thing I'm working on now is drilling a hole in the rear nos bushing to lock the bushing in place. It's a slip fit, not an interference fit, and needs the pin to prevent rotation.

Jorb
Have a question abut the two drive shaft bearings at the pinion end of the drive shaft. I'm refering to the two bearings in the differential. Do those bearings get lubricated soley by the diff oil, or do I need to pack tem with wheel bearing grease?? I can't find a clear and difinitive answer on this. Some literature states you should never introduce any oil other than the diff oil. Need some clear direction if you or anyone knowsm. Thanks

I also read somewhere, that you should never use wheel bearing grease on the front and rear pinion shaft bearings. I really don't know why?
Read Here Number 2, Under Propeller Shaft and Pinion Assembly.
It says to oil the bearings with engine oil before reinstalling.

There is one difference that I know of, from the older year truck axles to the newer year truck axles.
GM started using a oil retainer in front of the rear pinion shaft bearing. You can see it in this Illustration in front of number 4 arrow.
To retard or slow the return of gear lube back into the axle housing.
Assuring the front pinion shaft thrust bearing is in a continuous bath of gear lube.
Passenger car axles, I believe never used a oil retainer.
The Chevrolet's 1938 Shop Manual - Cut away illustration shows that there was no oil retainer.

I'm curious does your 1937 1/2 ton rear pinion shaft bearing have a oil retainer?
Can you post pictures of your entire propeller shaft.

Just one other thing.
Just to make sure it is done correctly.
Its a good idea to have someone around that has done a ring gear and pinion adjustment before.
Otherwise you could open up a can worms.

My drive shaft doesn't have an oil retainer.
I'm having trouble uploading a picture of the drive shaft and pinion gear, but it looks like others I have seen in discussions in this forum.
By the way, even though the diff cast number indicates the shaft and diff are a $7, I'm now almost certain it's a 36. The 36 bushings are what fit this assy, not the 37s. A real stumper to all in this forum.