The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop lead in body seams

Hello everyone, I am new to the site and this is my first post.
I have a 1953 3/4ton GMC and have removed a panel off the cab and noticed the seam was filled with lead. I would like to refill the seam with lead but have been unable to find a body guy that could give me some help. I know that I am asking this question to the correct group of people. Please point me in the correct direction to get information.

Thanks

Leading is a lost art. The best advise I can give is to ask custom shops in your area if there's anyone versed in leading. The reason lead was used back then was because it was the best material for that purpose that was available at that time. Modern plastic fillers should do the job just as well. Wanting to use original materials is an admirable idea but few do it anymore. Good luck with your quest.

If you are replacing your own panels you can probably handle your own soldering.
Eastwood has all the supplies and, if I remember correctly, have a How To manual. (probably on DVD now)

Eastwoods also used to carry a replacement for lead filler. It included fiberglas. We used it on the Suburban body-seams and have no problems after 10 years.

I think these are different products:
http://www.eastwood.com/metal-to-metal-filler-quart-with-hardner.html
http://www.eastwood.com/sem-carbo-fill-plus-27oz-40542.html

They also sell a lead-free solder kit.

Lead body filler isn't all that difficult to do, but there is a definite learning curve. The metal must be ground clean, with no oil or other contamination whatsoever, and a fairly aggressive sanding disc needs to be used to give the metal some "tooth" to grip the solder. Good quality body solder will be either 50/50 lead/tin alloy, or no less than 60/40 % lead to tin. The metal needs to be "tinned" with acid core solder before applying the lead filler. Heat the metal just hot enough to melt the solder, and apply liberal dabs of acid core to the area to be filled, then quickly wipe the metal surface with a clean cotton cloth to spread a thin layer of solder to the entire area. This base coat is what the rest of the filler will bond to, so be sure the surface is completely tinned.

Now apply the lead filler by softening the stick of lead with a torch flame, and keeping the body panel warm with the flame at the same time. The lead should be butter-soft, not runny, and it should stick to the panel when it's dabbed onto the metal. This is where LOTS of practice comes in- - - -keeping the lead and the metal the proper temperature to be worked with a hardwood paddle and not hot enough to run off. The spreader paddle needs to have a very thin coat of non-detergent motor oil on it to keep the lead from sticking to the paddle. We used a shallow metal tray with an oil-soaked rag in it to lubricate the spreader paddle- - - -a little oil is all that's needed- - -don't overdo it! If another layer of lead is needed, thoroughly degrease the surface of the metal with lacquer thinner before attempting to apply more lead- - - -oily body solder will not accept another layer of filler.

After the job is smoothed and filed flat with a vixen file, wash the entire area with a strong solution of baking soda and water to neutralize the acid from the solder that was applied in the beginning. Otherwise, the acid will cause the primer and paint to lift at the edge of the solder filled area. Have fun, and do a lot of practicing on scrap metal before working on a project you intend to finish and paint!
Jerry

No disrespect meant towards Jerry "Hotrod Lincoln" at all! Great advise on how to lead!!

Can I ask why you want to put lead back in? What's the purpose?

As earlier mentioned, lead was used because nothing else was available. Today, polyester body filler is the product to use. Do not use fibre glass filler.

We love pictures too! give us some background info along with pics.

It takes a customer with a VERY deep pocket to make me do any lead work these days- - - -I make it expensive enough to be painful if somebody just has to have that kind of work done!

About 30-something years ago we started using a resin-based Ditzler product called "Aluma-Lead" in places where a metallic filler was needed, such as for rebuilding rusted-out window channels, etc. It was atomized aluminum powder mixed with a fiberglass resin liquid carrier. It was necessary to sandblast the area first, do a thorough cleanup, and then apply the filler over a cardboard backing. When it cured, it could be filed, sanded, and painted like aluminum. That product was dropped from inventory when PPG bought out Ditzler several years ago. Now if I want a metallic filler, I use Devcon Epoxy Aluminum or Epoxy Steel. Lead only gets used on a concours restoration job, and if you have to ask what it costs, you can't afford it!
Jerry

Thanks for all the great information.
A little about me. This is my first frame off restoration. The cab only has two spots of rust that need to be cut out and a patch welded back in. The right side cab panel with the vent in it was damaged by the door being opened to far. As said before this is my first restore job and am looking forward to performing all work needed. The only thing I want to send out is the sand blasting and paint. I wanted to keep the cab just like when it came off the assembly line. That would be the only reason I was thinking lead for the seams. It sounds like lead is not the way to go and will be looking into other seam sealers.

I will get some pictures downloaded and posted.

Thanks again for everybody's input and insight on this.

Rob

Again no disrespect to Jerry but forgot to advise anyone doing lead work to and be sure to use your Personal Protection when doing lead work as we want all you SB's to be around to enjoy your rides.
I was taught by my neighbor who is now Six Feet Under. He was truly a great Craftsman. One thing about Ken he tried to get all the dents out without filler material.

The best lead worker I've met painted lacquer 8-10 hours a day in the 1950's without a respirator, chain-smoked unfiltered Camel cigarettes when he wasn't spraying paint, and we had to watch him closely to make sure he didn't spike his Coca-Cola with a little lacquer thinner. It was not uncommon to have to bail him out of jail on Monday morning after getting arrested over the weekend for "drunk and disorderly". It finally killed him- - -at age 85! That problem seemed to be chronic with painters- - - -they had to keep the thinner buzz going on the weekends with alcohol.

When I owned a body shop 20-something years layer, a lot of painters were still drunks, but by then they had also discovered pot!
Jerry

If paint shops enforced the banning of pot usage, the entire paint industry would collapse within one week. You do not want a paint job done by a pot smoker who has been "out" for any length of time.

I have been doing some investigating and found a local body guy that knows how to do lead seams. His first question to me was, "ARE YOU STUPID"? Why do you want to use lead. I told him why and he asked again "ARE YOU STUPID"? He gave me some information on other body seam sealers. He told me about the Devon Epoxy Aluminum or Epoxy Steel. He told me to contact 3M and talk to there tech line and see what they have that would work best for what I'm doing.

Again Thanks to everyone for their help and info.

Rob

I'm working on getting pictures, having trouble with the link to dropbox.

The really good body men from half a century ago or more considered it a matter of pride in their workmanship to be able to metal-finish a sheet metal job well enough to only need primer and paint- - - -no filler at all! Sadly, those skills are pretty much a lost art these days.
Jerry

As opposed to the modern definition, that was called "metal finishing" when I was in body & fender trade school in the '60s. It wasn't common by then but some of the old timers still metal finished. I learned how during my stint in the GM training center in KC but never used it as a body man. The thin steel on today's cars make the practice impractical.

True- - - -and even using thin layers of Bondo for surface finishing is going out of style. If a panel can't be replaced easily with a brand new part, they total the car.
Jerry