The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline Axle perch welding suggestions

Mod,
If this should be in the tools forum, please move.

Looking for some some suggestions on welding new spring perches to a 14 Bolt axle. Amps, rods, technique etc.

Axle tubes are said to be 1/2" thick.
The perches I'm using are 1/4" thick.
I'll be using a Lincoln 225 AC stick welder.
Rods: 6011? 6013? 7018?
Rod diameter?
Anything else I forgot....

Thanks,
Larry W.

Practice on and or adjust your welder for 1/4" plate.
With everything nice and clean I'd use 3/32 or 1/8" 7018 whichever works best for you and your welder in practice. Some years ago I welded perches on a Dana axle this way.

Back then I thought it needed lots of weld... Today I think just one good clean pass on each side will do the trick (same as factory perches were welded on).
The more weld and more passes the more likely to distort the tube/housing because you're only welding on the top side.

Well,

Fancy meetin' you here! LOL

Thought about asking you, but I bug you enough.

I knew heat would be a concern. I would likely weld an inch of the driver side perch and switch to the pass. side perch etc., maybe even doing opposite sides and ends of the perch each time.

"Today I think just one good clean pass on each side will do the trick"

If I remember correctly, you would tend to direct the arc down toward the thicker metal (tube) and then pull up to the thinner metal (perch) as you go along? Or would you just weld the V in a straight line, making sure the metals are pooling together?

My dad taught me to weld on his "tombstone" Lincoln 225 when I was a kid. Then I had a welding course when I went to a 2 year Technical College for auto and diesel mechanics after high school, but that has been a long time ago.

Since then, I have only ever owned a budget 70 amp MIG , designed for no more than 3/16" plate. No stick welding for a long time.

Picking up a used Lincoln this weekend. They're pretty bullet proof. I think Dad's is from the late 50's maybe, and he still uses it. It has the stamped steel amp selector switch. Not as old as the ones where you had to select the amps like you were plugging connectors into holes on a switchboard though.

Larry W.

I found this post online...covers a lot of pros and cons. I'll take your advice. I'll use a 7018 rod, if for no other reason than I remember a 6013 being a real booger to make a nice weld with. LOL

http://www.naxja.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-79098.html

If that Lincoln welder is an AC buzz box, stay FAR away from 7018! It's a reverse-polarity DC rod, and running it on AC is a royal PITA! Use 7014 instead, a 1/8" rod at 90-100 amps. It runs a bead on AC that's very similar to 7018, flat and clean, with slag that virtually falls off when you wave a slag hammer somewhere in its general vicinity.

If you want good penetration, use 6010 or 6011 for a root pass, and run a cap pass with 7014 or 7018, depending on the type of welder you have, to make it look good and add a bit more strength to the bead. I spent several years as a welder/pipefitter for E & J Gallo winery, using the 6010/7018 combination on black iron water and steam pipes up to 12" in diameter.
Jerry

Dang it. It is the 225 AC box.

I wish you had posted that just a wee bit sooner. I just bought 5 lbs of 7018 at Lowes.

But, I also bought 5 lbs of 6011.
It was touted as working the best on rusty stuff.

I'll return the 7018. Those 2 were really all they had. Well, they might have had some 6013, but I remember not liking those.

I'll use the 6011 and see what it looks like. Pretty isn't really a BIG worry for me. Nobody but me will look there anyway.

Larry W.

6011 is a general-purpose rod that runs well on AC, but it makes a rather ugly weld with lots of gas pockets in the slag. It gives very good penetration without a lot of cleanup required, but the slag is a little difficult to chip away. We used 6010 for a root pass on pipe work because most of the slag splattered away (like welding in a hot rainstorm) and it took very little cleanup to prepare for the 7018 cap pass.

I use 7014 for most of the work I do with my Lincoln 180 amp AC buzz box, but I just recently acquired a gas engine driven Lincoln 250 amp DC machine which will be a little more versatile with the rod selection. I've also got a 300 amp Miller AC/DC stick/TIG welder in storage waiting for the addition to my big shop to be finished. That one's even got a coolant tank and pump for the water-cooled TIG torch, and a high frequency spark start for welding aluminum. Fun times ahead!
Jerry

Sounds like you are set up. I'll keep my eyes open for some 7014. No welding shops close to me. Just home centers.

Larry

If there is a TSC store (Tractor Supply Co.) nearby, that's where I get mine. Don't know if that franchise is active in your area or not.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/hobart-7014-1-8-in-dia-stick-electrodes-5-lb?cm_vc=-10005

Jerry

Yes and no.

Across town, but for me, from the town I live in, to the other side of Jacksonville is about 60 miles. I may go that way soon, so maybe I'll stop in.

Larry

I took the 7018's back, not because of the DC only suggestion, but because in reading about them, they must be stored at 250 degrees. Otherwise they absorb moisture and will defeat the purpose of being a low hydrogen rod.

Apparently, a damp 7018 will release hydrogen when burned and cause a brittle weld. I'm not willing to store them properly, so I took them back. The package did say AC on it along with DC, but I will take your word that they would be hard to weld with.

That being said, I will use the 6011's I bought as the root weld and if need be, I will over weld it with 7014. I ordered a 5 lb. box of them on Amazon last night.

Thanks,

Larry W.

Good choice! The main problem with 7018 on AC is the necessity to run very high current and/or a very short arc to keep the rod from sticking to the puddle. 7014 and 7018 run at the correct amperage can be used as a "drag rod" with the flux actually touching the puddle- - - -the rod burns away faster than the flux, and this sets the ideal arc length automatically. It takes a little practice to accomplish this, but once you figure out how to do it, it becomes second nature. That's not the case with 6011.

Funny story- - - -I was browsing the shelves at the welding supply store when a customer asked the counterman for some "1109 welding rod". "Never heard of it" was the answer he got. "Come on- - - -I use it all the time!" Have you ever turned a 6011 rod upside down and tried to read the number?

LOL!
Jerry

WOW,

That's great.

Larry W.

Welding the spring seats to the housing is not all that critical. The clamping force of the U-Bolts is what keeps them in place. If the U-Bolt stretches, you are going to have problems now matter how good the weld is.

I just don't use "low hydrogen" rods. They are too hard to store and there are times when a weld had to be cut, and a torch won't cut it. An arc gouger will, but not all surroundings lend themselves to arc gouging.

They do need to be welded well enough to resist whatever torque Can be applied to the wheels. But ~16" of most any sort of weld around a 3.5" tube should do that just fine. (~4" four places)

Got my U-bolts today, nice looking parts, made by Dayton.

8U-3210S 5/8 X 2-1/16 X 10-7/8 Square U-bolt with nuts and washers

Tall nuts and thick washers, just like they should be.

Also got the rest of the bushings for the springs and shackles from RockAuto, still waiting on some brake parts.


Larry W.