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14 bolt axle swap Considerations, Brainstorming, and Solutions #1145468 Tue Jan 19 2016 05:54 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 277
M
Mrf1002u Offline OP
Shop Shark
Ok,

Not sure if it was here, but I think it was. Somebody made a comment about finding that a bottom u-bolt saddle from a Ford f250 or 350 would fit on a 14 bolt axle tube. This was mentioned while discussing options for putting a 14 bolt under an AD 1 ton with 2" springs. Anybody know who said it or what post it was? Can't remember what truck they said it was from exactly.

Thanks,
Larry W.

Last edited by Grigg; Wed Jun 22 2016 03:13 PM. Reason: revise title

1953 3800 Dually Flatbed
14 bolt axle U-bolt saddle, Also clearance between backing plate & springs [Re: Mrf1002u] #1145550 Tue Jan 19 2016 07:15 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,133
G
Grigg Offline
.
It was me, might have been in passing in a PM...
Here is the PICTURE

I'm not 100% certain of the application but they came to me on a 61 F350 ford (with Dana axle) and I'm guessing they were original. They fit a 2" wide leaf spring and pretty nearly fit the axle tube on a 14 bolt as shown. A minute or three with a file would have them fitting perfectly.

Grigg


1951 GMC 250 in the Project Journals
1948 Chevrolet 6400 - Detroit Diesel 4-53T - Roadranger 10 speed overdrive - 4 wheel disc brakes
1952 Chevrolet 3800 pickup
---All pictures---
"First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-
Re: 14 bolt saddle from a Ford - Post I can not find anymore !!! [Re: Mrf1002u] #1145564 Tue Jan 19 2016 08:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 277
M
Mrf1002u Offline OP
Shop Shark
LOL,

I thought maybe it was you, but I couldn't find it. I searched for 2 hours on 3 forums. When I first saw it, I didn't save the info. Not normal for me. I usually do. Thanks.

Slung my C&C 14 bolt under the 53 3800 DRW flatty yesterday with the stock u bolts and some temporary flat bar in place of the saddles. Man is it tight. LOL. Maybe 3/8" between the backing plates and the overload pack on top. I might have to put the axle on the ground and bleed the brakes before hanging it on the truck. Overload pack covers the bleeder. Now if I go to disc on the truck all around, Ill be fine as long as the caliper clears the springs, or as long as I can clock the caliper to where it clears. Bleeding would be the only issue with clocking I guess, but they could be pulled and bled with a block between the pads.

I did all of this to make sure it was possible and to make sure the 19.5's will work. I was afraid of spring clearance, but I mounted the inners, and then dual'ed it up to admire it. LOL. No issue there. Even found a set of lug nut adapter rings (stiffeners) on ebay yesterday for less that 40, shipped. Still need to augment my lug nut collection.

Just to be clear, the mounting order is: inner dual against drum, outer dual against inner, then clamp rings and lug nuts right? No other components involved? I just bought used wheels and no hardware with them.

Larry W.


1953 3800 Dually Flatbed
Re: 14 bolt saddle from a Ford - Post I can not find anymore !!! [Re: Mrf1002u] #1145568 Tue Jan 19 2016 09:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 277
M
Mrf1002u Offline OP
Shop Shark
Grigg,

Didn't notice a brand or numbers on those did ya?

Larry W.


1953 3800 Dually Flatbed
Re: 14 bolt saddle from a Ford - Post I can not find anymore !!! [Re: Mrf1002u] #1145606 Wed Jan 20 2016 01:03 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,133
G
Grigg Offline
.
You got the assembly order right.
In your hunt for lug nuts let me know if you find US made ones. I ordered some Dorman brand from NAPA and they're Taiwanese, and no other options available from NAPA. I'll return them if I find better ones.

I'll look for numbers on those axle saddles.

I have some single wheel 13x3.5" drums, need to check if they fit in the 19.5 dual wheels, I think they might. By swapping them and spacing the backing plate out you'd gain about 1.25" room at the springs. I was going to do this for single wheels any how but might also work with duals.

Grigg


1951 GMC 250 in the Project Journals
1948 Chevrolet 6400 - Detroit Diesel 4-53T - Roadranger 10 speed overdrive - 4 wheel disc brakes
1952 Chevrolet 3800 pickup
---All pictures---
"First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-
Re: 14 bolt saddle from a Ford - Post I can not find anymore !!! [Re: Mrf1002u] #1145615 Wed Jan 20 2016 02:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 277
M
Mrf1002u Offline OP
Shop Shark
Grigg,

I'll update you on lug nuts if found. Are you using the big 1" inch ones like me?

Thanks for checking for numbers.

Interested in the outcome on the drums. My backing plates are considerably offset.

So you have the P30 19.5's but want singles huh? Are you going with the 19.5 singles like the hard to find originals and on the front and back?

Larry W.

Some pics of my clearances and test fit:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7a7q8pcfwdjrtsq/AADi3BicT8DXzENJKNk5FF-fa?dl=0


1953 3800 Dually Flatbed
Re: 14 bolt saddle from a Ford - Post I can not find anymore !!! [Re: Mrf1002u] #1145617 Wed Jan 20 2016 02:31 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 277
M
Mrf1002u Offline OP
Shop Shark
"So you have the P30 19.5's but want singles huh?"

"Before long I'd like to put the pickup bed on the GMC."

Now I understand...

Larry W.


1953 3800 Dually Flatbed
Re: 14 bolt saddle from a Ford - Post I can not find anymore !!! [Re: Mrf1002u] #1145621 Wed Jan 20 2016 03:15 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,133
G
Grigg Offline
.
Part number on the ford axle saddles is c1tt5796z. A quick search shows it listed as obsolete at some point.
http://www.fordpartswiki.com/getpage?pageid=158504


1951 GMC 250 in the Project Journals
1948 Chevrolet 6400 - Detroit Diesel 4-53T - Roadranger 10 speed overdrive - 4 wheel disc brakes
1952 Chevrolet 3800 pickup
---All pictures---
"First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-
Re: 14 bolt saddle from a Ford - Post I can not find anymore !!! [Re: Mrf1002u] #1145638 Wed Jan 20 2016 04:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 277
M
Mrf1002u Offline OP
Shop Shark
Grigg,

Thanks for the numbers. It's a place to start.

I am even considering making some, cut from .250 or .188 wall thickness box or rectangle. This allows cutting the exact size hole for the axle and then using the desired section height when halving the box material. I wish the material came in 5" width though.

4" box minus 1/4" wall each side leaves 3-1/2" in theory....
U-bolt is 2" ID plus two 5/8" shafts = 3-1/4" so it fits inside.

Now that doesn't leave much at the edges, but the clamp force WILL be directly over the 1/4" thick vertical wall. The u-bolt nut contact area could easily be built up with some plate laminated to the outside edges and the ends could be boxed off for strength.

For now, I will hunt for more elusive parts like yours. LOL

Larry W.


1953 3800 Dually Flatbed
Re: 14 bolt saddle from a Ford - Post I can not find anymore !!! [Re: Mrf1002u] #1145647 Wed Jan 20 2016 05:50 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,133
G
Grigg Offline
.
I bet they're common on a lot of 3/4 and 1 ton Fords back in the 60's and likely earlier and later.
The reason they seem a better fit is the 14 bolt axle tubes are not the common 3", 3.5" or even 4" like a lot of other axles are (I forget exact diameter, need to measure again). Though close in size the original GM saddles wrap around a fair amount of the circumference and won't fit the 14 bolt tube
The Ford version on the other hand does not contact much of the axle tube and while still not the exact same diameter as the 14 bolt tube it can easily be adjusted to fit.
Both the original AD GM and the 60's ford saddles shown in the background of this PICTURE

By the time the 14 bolt came out they used leaf springs wider than 2", so saddles for the axle won't fit our old springs.

Last edited by Grigg; Wed Jan 20 2016 03:18 PM. Reason: add picture

1951 GMC 250 in the Project Journals
1948 Chevrolet 6400 - Detroit Diesel 4-53T - Roadranger 10 speed overdrive - 4 wheel disc brakes
1952 Chevrolet 3800 pickup
---All pictures---
"First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-
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