The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Tons 'o Fun Yet another axle swap...

Hey all. I'm sure you get ridiculously tired of these swap questions; this question was over in HiPo but was told I may get a better response here...so here goes:

I have a '58 1 ton dually, which is apparently a beast of beasts with its 5-something gear ratio. Powertrain is a built '85 350 with a 700r4. Problem is, I want to have my cake and eat it too: 4x4, disc brakes. Sounds strange maybe, but I don't really care about power steering; if I get it I get it, if not oh well.

So, I've been looking at doing a 3/4 or 1 ton S or DRW chassis swap with a kit for the 73-87. But, I don't necessarily want to lose that rearend...or do I? Can I keep my frame and rearend and just swap the front axle and change the gears (either front or rear) to match? Would the newer front be too wide and look funny with the stock rear? Or...should I just swap both front and rear axles?

I'm also more fond of manual transmissions, so I may swap for a 4 speed- if that changes your recommendations.

So the options are:
Stock frame, swap the front axle (4x4 & discs), then match the gears
Stock frame, swap both axles with matching gears from 73-87
Swap frame, matching axles from 73-87

I need to be able to pull a bumper-pull camper or a trailer occasionally, deal with the occasional snowfall in the mountains, and be able to drive it daily if needed.

I'd think real hard if you really really need 4x4? If the answer is yes then you're in for a lot of work and arguably a less than ideal mismatch of old and new and I'm sure compromises, some not so great.
The simplest way (not actually "simple") to do that is probably put your cab on a whole different chassis with the complete drivetrain you desire.

If after careful consideration you don't really need 4x4 in this truck your life just got a whole lot simpler. You can just drive the truck, if you want to go faster swap out the gears or entire axle for 4.10 ratio or close.

In my experience and from watching others you're more likely to end up with just what you want if you drive the truck now and don't rush into tearing it apart and making big changes. First get to know it as it is, perhaps make some smaller changes as you go. If later you decide to do major changes you should then have a good idea of what they should be based on experience.

Grigg,

I definitely appreciate the words of wisdom. I will definitely be driving the truck (soon I hope) and will base my decision off of that. That's kind of why I'm starting with the Q&A now.
4x4 is just one of those things that I use infrequently but when I need it I NEED it. I'm just really hesitant to have a 2wd dually and try to get around in a snow or on the farm...plus my driveway can be a little precarious. I've definitely considered just a good set of chains. For the record, this has to be the 1 and only truck; wife says I can't have this one and a 4x4.
If I did decide that 2x was okay and just wanted a little more speed, where can I find a new set of gears for that rearend?

A dually really sucks on anything slick or gooey. Adding 4WD makes it tolerable. Only time in my life I got stuck and had to be pulled out was when driving a 2WD 1 ton dually through a cow pasture.

Case in point. :-)

Concur with Grigg -- 4WD will be a LOT of trouble for something you only think you need

Drove a 2WD dually for ~20 years and only had to call for help twice. And then I learned how to drive Lots of farm yards, back roads, trailers, etc. I think 4wd is a crutch for most people and its a lot of weight and expense to be hauling around for the two or three times in the lifetime of the truck you *might* actually need it.

Do you live on the side of a mountain? Or at the end of a logging road? Do you get to your house through a soggy cow pasture? If no, then I would question yours (or anyone's) "need" for 4WD.

My farm truck is a '00 F-450 in 2WD and it does just fine (once I put non-highway tires on it ... ) and it goes into a few barn yards to collect manure, etc.

I do have a beater F350 with 4WD and frankly, I only use the 4wd rarely and only because I'm going someplace I probably shouldn't be, and don't have a need to, or should be using the tractor ... But I agree with the statement above that off the highway, duallies get you *into* more trouble than they get you *out* of.

Just sayin'

JM

Fair enough, John, I agree that it's quite a bit of hassle for the few times I would need it...not that I've made my decision yet, but...the question remains, if I want to reach highway speeds on a fairly regular basis where can I find a replacement gear set for that rearend?

You should have an Eaton rear, (fully round housing) and if so you can get 4.10 ratio, lots of discussion lately about this swap just browse and or search a little.
I just made this swap I my 51 a couple weeks ago, real easy to do.

If you're concerned about traction you could purchase a Detroit Locker for a GM 14 bolt rear and it will fit inside the Eaton carrier. Then use 14 bolt axle shafts trimmed a 1/4" or there about. This would be a whole heck of a lot easier and cheaper than 4wd.

A 14 bolt axle swap is another option and they can be had with 3.73 gears and even some faster, as well as 4.10 and plenty of slower choices. Some searching will turn up discussion of this option too.

I too have only 2wd vehicles and rarely desire 4wd. If sometime I do really need 4wd I won't do that to one of my old trucks. Makes more sense to me to buy a ready to use newer 4wd vehicle.

14 bolt is what I did with my 50. I installed disc brakes and gears with a Detroit locker, which technically applies the same amount of traction as a standard 4wd vehicle does. Ive only really used 4wd on off-road situations, (i.e. 4 wheeling) and even in snow its not always the best. The locker has worked very well in a couple instances where I could have potentially gotten stuck, being that it works automatically I've had no issues with wheel slippage

I'll admit, I can find my way around the engine bay, but I've never messed with rearends. I understand the language to a point, but some of what you've said loses me. I'm assuming a machine shop could take care of trimming the axle shafts, but I'm quite certain I won't be the one to tell them exactly how much and I certainly wouldn't know how to find out.
How do I determine (because I need to know, not just be told) what size ring/pinion I would need, such as 9.5in or 10.5in? With the locker, a quick search reveals several sizes as well and availability doesn't go back to '58. So, I'm assuming that that Eaton was used for quite a while and that later models will fit, is that correct?

Side note, I think we're getting somewhere. I like the truck as it is, so I like where this is going.

I have to say, before my 47 was placed in zip lock bags, when it was on the road in the 80's we took it out in the Catskills hills of NY. And I do mean hills. At the valley of every hill was a stream leading to the next hill with a fair amount of wet leaves to follow on the road. We only got stuck once when my then future wife was driving and got nervous about gunning it through the stream.......Those were the days. All with Italian racing Baldini 7.00x18's

I am of a fan of 2WD, though I look forward to meeting Diseasal to see his truck. We kep passing each other around town.

another option would be to install a napco front axel and divorced transfer case. All bolt in parts.. the front diff would be same as your rear diff... could install 5.14 (1 ton) 4.57 (3/4 ton) or a later model 4.11 - all bolt in

wouldn't have disc brakes but 1 ton drum brakes I find to be fine for the speed I drive.

Hi Blue Cheese

I swapped my 5 something rear axle for a 1985 K5 Blazer (4.10's gears)...ditched the 1 ton rear springs for a pair of late 1990's Chevy truck rear leaf springs with hangers too...for the front end I ditched all the 1 ton stuff and got a 1/2 ton front axle, spindles, leaf springs, and hangers too...I then went to CPP and bought their disc brake kit with master cylinder too...

Took me about 6 months to get all that stuff done...

hope this helps you out...I have a build thread on here with lots of pictures in my photo bucket account...

Good luck with your project...

MikeC