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| | | | Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 34 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 34 | I'm looking for engine options in order to get more power out of my 1953 6400. I was originally going to swap a Buick or Chevy small block into it, but I'm starting to lean toward building a straight 6 instead. Nothing toooo crazy, just a intake, carb, exhaust and mild cam.
I thought about building the 235 I've got, as it runs good, but I'm concerned with the old low pressure oil setup. Should I even bother? I'd love to get a 261, but that is going to be a VERY long hunt, especially in NJ. Feel free to let me know if you have one for sale around NJ!
I can find newer 250CI I-6's around here pretty easy and CHEAP. Is that a viable option? I'm guessing its not a straight swap like the 261 would be but how hard of a swap is it?
You want to make God laugh? Tell him you plans.
| | | | | Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,596 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,596 | For long-term drivability and maintenance, I don't think you'll ever regret the Buick or SBC route. The 6's are cool, but I'm so glad that mine didn't work out in my '62 Bel Air. It's a way better car with a SBC. | | | | | Joined: May 2005 Posts: 8,983 Sir Searchalot | | Sir Searchalot Joined: May 2005 Posts: 8,983 | x2...a V8 and chrome wheels and you can rule the world.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
| | | | | Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 613 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 613 | I'm pretty sure there is a 261 in an old truck in a scrap yard near me. Don't know if it runs. But it's there | | | | | Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 34 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 34 | Yeah, the V8 is still in the back of my mind, though i'm afraid it's going to be too involved to just jump into right off the bat.
How much is involved in the V8 swap. Do all the engine and Trans mounts need to be completely fabricated?
A built I6 and an Overdrive added to the SM420 should be a nice setup for most of what I want to do. I'm not going to drag race it or drive cross country.
Hey Jim. Where is this scrap yard and how sure are you that they have a 261?
You want to make God laugh? Tell him you plans.
| | | | | Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 613 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 613 | Truckasaurus, Sent you a PM! | | | | | Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 34 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 34 | OK, I've got a line on a semi-local 261 so this may not matter. I even have some work to do in the area where it's at, so the comapny will cover my gas. Woooooo!
You want to make God laugh? Tell him you plans.
| | | | | Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,765 Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) | | Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,765 | The 261 can be turned into a real hotrod by boring and stroking, and the displacement can get close to 300 cubic inches. Do a search on "Cadillac 261" for the details. Basically, the crankshaft (which is the same as a 235) gets reground off-center to the size of a 292 rod bearing, increasing the stroke. Rods for a Chevy 292 I-6 are used to bring the piston close to the top of the block. Then a piston for a Cadillac V8 engine gets fitted to complete the displacement change. You get a very large displacement engine that's hard to distinguish from a 235. http://www.angelfire.com/nv/conv/stovebolt.htmlJerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
| | | | | Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 34 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 34 | False alarm. It's a 235. Dangit!
The hunt continues!
You want to make God laugh? Tell him you plans.
| | | | | Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 613 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 613 | Truck
I'm actually at the yard now getting the numbers off of the engine I spoke to you about. I'll let you know what I come up with | | | | | Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 34 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 34 |
You want to make God laugh? Tell him you plans.
| | | | | Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 613 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 613 | Truck, Sorry, but its a 235  | | | | | Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 34 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 34 | Oh well. Thanks for verifying it for me!
You want to make God laugh? Tell him you plans.
| | | | | Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 5,096 Crusing in the Passing Lane | | Crusing in the Passing Lane Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 5,096 | A 292 Chevy or 302 GMC will require moving the radiator fwd In the core support(approx. 3" longer), but will give considerably more hp.
Ed
'37 GMC T-18 w/ DD 4-53T, RTO-610, 6231 aux., '95 GMC running gear, full disc brakes, power steering, 22.5 wheels and tires.
'47 GMC 1 ton w/ 302, NP-540, 4wd, full width Blazer front axle.
'54 GMC 630 w/ 503 gasser, 5 speed, ex fire truck, shortened WB 4', install 8' bed.
'55 GMC 370 w/270, 420 4 speed, grain, dump bed truck from ND. Works OK.
| | | | | Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 34 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 34 | Won't the mounting and clutch be totally different? I'f I'm going to have to weld in new cross members and add a hydraulic clutch, I might as well get the V8 to work and get close to 300HP.
My main reason for wanting the 261 is its basically a drop in swap other than the water pump
Last edited by Truckasaurus44; 01/18/2016 5:18 PM.
You want to make God laugh? Tell him you plans.
| | | | | Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,765 Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) | | Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,765 | The 302 GMC and the 235/216 have the same bellhousing and clutch, so the back end of the engine will be a bolt-in swap. A 292 would require a different bellhousing and clutch linkage setup. As above, the front mount and radiator will have to be massaged a little.
Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
| | | | | Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 34 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 34 | Is it possible to use a 292 and maintain the manual clutch and the mounting setup as found on the 235 bell housing? The front mouns look like they will be easier to fab up. I'm more worried about having the cut out the crossmember where the bellhousing rests and make a new crossmember with trans mount.
You want to make God laugh? Tell him you plans.
| | | | | Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,765 Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) | | Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,765 | It's possible to fit the 292, but you'll need to change the crossmember under the bellhousing. Your 53 is going to have a flat mounting surface for the bellhousing motor mounts. Later-model crossmembers will have angled mounting surfaces that match a 55-up V8 bellhousing- - - -same shape and bolt spacing as the 292. The clutch linkage might be able to be modified to work- - - -not sure on that, though!
Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
| | | | | Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 34 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 34 | I'm actually pretty sure my frame and drivetrain is from a 54 6100. its got a full pressure 235 rather than a splasher, and the cross member is angled, as you are describing.
So do I need a 292 belhousing or does my current angled 235 crossmember bolt up to the 292?
You want to make God laugh? Tell him you plans.
| | | | | Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,765 Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) | | Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,765 | The 235 bellhousing DOES NOT match up to a 292. You will need a 55-up V8 bellhousing or one from a 63-up 6 cylinder or V8 truck. Unless you're planning to use a crossmember supporting the rear of the transmission, the V8 bellhousing will need to be cast iron, not aluminum. Some of the 59-61 housings are designed for hydraulic clutch linkage, and the hole for the throwout yoke is on the passenger's side.
Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
| | | | | Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 34 Wrench Fetcher | | Wrench Fetcher Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 34 | Darn. I still think the 261 is going to be the best option if only I can find one nearby
You want to make God laugh? Tell him you plans.
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