The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline T5 for a 1 ton?

I just recently posted about using a 62 4speed behind a 261 in my 1 ton. I plan on using a 410 from a 67-72 3/4 ton to get the rpms down and the speed up. But... Has anyone used a T5 in their one ton? I have one with good ratios and was curious about your opinion. I do want to drive this truck a fair bit, but I'm realistic as it won't be doing long,long hauls. Maybe 100 miles in a day once a week.
Should I stay "original" with 4 speed or will the T5 make that big of a difference?

I wouldn't. The transmission was used in a truck smaller than 1/2 ton. The 261 is also a pretty reasonable engine. What is the first gear ratio, is it low enough to get a load started on a hill without frying the clutch?
I think the 4.10 gears will give you the speed you need and keeping the 4 speed is no question about strength.

Or because you have it and it is easy to install you could try it and see if it last?
Still probably best to first try the 4 speed and the 4.10, see if you even want overdrive.

Let us know how the 4.10 gears work...I am curious to see how it works....some folks are telling me 4.10's are stump puller gears and some are telling me I need something in the "3's" to make my truck highway friendly....mine is currently a 4 speed / 235 in a 1 ton chassis.....with 4.10's out of a 1985 K5 Blazer...I am hoping for 55 mph in the end...not sure the how these trucks will handle at that speed tho...that's a whole nother can of worms...

MikeC

A 4.10 should work just fine with a direct drive 4th. gear- - - -the 235/261 engines are not the fragile little wallflowers people seem to think they are. They were intended to run all day at or near their max RPM/horsepower rating in trucks, and some of them had rear axle ratios in the 5's or lower. Make sure the rod bearings are in good shape, run the engine around 3K RPM, keep it well-tuned, and change the oil and filter regularly. You shouldn't have any trouble keeping up with traffic.
Jerry

Rather than give a yes or no answer, you have to ask yourself what the use of the truck is going to be.

Are you going to be using the truck for hauling heavy loads, or pulling a large trailer? If so, you do not want the T5 from what my research.

If you are using the one ton for just fun type transportation, I see no reason that it would be any worse in a one ton than a half ton. The difference is only what? five - six hundred pounds.

The T5 would sure be nice with that rear end gear on the highway.

Jim

This old girl will not see any hard work anymore. She's for fun now. I'm still a long way from the end of the restoration tunnel, but wanted input. The 261 is rebuilt so it should last a long time. I may possibly put a hitch on the back just in case. I think I will go with the 4 speed for now. It will be much easier to deal with and with the 4.10 I think it will be okay.
I'll hang on to the T5 for now and try the 4 speed first with the different 4.10 gears. Those 5.14's are sooooo slowwwww. It barely moves in first gear!

You could also go with taller tires to increase your highway speed without pegging the tachometer. The granny gear first gear will still be able to get you going up a hill.

What are the actual t5 trans details? What tag number is it? That will tell the ratios. What final tire size do you plan to run.

It's a 1352-145 so it has the favourable ratios. I will stick with tires that are stock size. 17x7.5. I was going to use the t5 in my 1/2 ton but am beginning to lean toward something a lot peppier. Cough cough, small block... Don't judge too harshly!

You are dead to me.

At least the 1 ton is a 6 My 235 I was going to use had a MASSIVE crack along it, so I'm engine searching and thinking.

I have a 1-ton with a 235 that I did the carrier swap in, and have 4.10 gears. Carl52 hit the nail on the head. Rear tire size can play a huge part. My truck runs up to about 55 mph wide open with 28" diameter tires. When it had 31.5" tires it ran probably 5 mph faster. But I can run steep hills in 4th gear alot better with the smaller diameter tires. Lower gear effect. Having said all that I am doing a T5 swap with a world-class unit from a Camaro (with an S10 tailshaft to clear the seat). This will give a lot better 1-4 shift pattern than the old 420 Muncie, which is basically a 3-speed. The OD ratio in my T5 is a .76 so that will help also.

Fox, I think you'll be satisfied with the four speed and 4.10
and as Jerry posted, that 261 will run all day at 3k with no problems.
I've posted this a dozen times, it's not a very good video and
the sound is pretty bad. But at least it does give you an idea
of what it's like to ride in a stock 1950, 3600 216 equipped
with it's original SM420 4-speed and a 4.10 gear from a '69 or
'70 3/4-ton. The tires are Michelin LT215/85 R16 and I'll run
it up to 55mph or 60mph most of the way. At 3k this will keep
up with traffic on the expressway, that is, if it's not
posted over 65mph.
So...come take a ride around the block with me:


Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I gotta couple of questions...you don't use 1st gear to start out from a stop??...I have 215-75-15's on mine (28" tall I believe) (I have not driven it yet)...so I am wondering what height tires I will need to get that kind of speed out of my 3800 1 ton...how tall are your tires???...

current tires

rear tires

Also where is all the traffic???...I have over 4,000 cars a day on my roadway in front of my road...and that's a 2 lane side road...

One last thing how is the truck on gas mileage with that set-up??

Any insight would be wonderful..

MikeC

Fox,
I run a .060 over 261 in my 59 apache 1/2tn 3sp transmission 3.90 rear with 265/75/15 rear tires. It will run 70mph. all day at 3400rpm. I usually stay around 55/60 mph, the drivers down here in south louisiana keep you on your toes especially on the interstate highway.
I prefer to take the scenic route when I go somewhere, roll down the windows and enjoy the sights. At 55/60 where ever I'm going will still be there when I get there.

Fox,
Been following your progress for a while. I'm running 17" stock tires on mine with the carrier swap to a 4:10 with the original 216. I can run 65 with no issues and Chris Sweet actually had it up to 77mph!I have to admit, his are a lot bigger than mine. 70mph for me is more than adequate! Still have bias ply!! I also use first gear on slight inclines to save the clutch, otherwise starting out in 2nd. As for the cracked block, if the engine operates, just seal up the crack. it's probably just the thin outer water jacket. Look at my pic's of the repair that I made to mine. Your choice! Thanks for your posts, luv watching your progress.

An SM420 1st gear is even to low for moving around in a
parking lot Mike.
Without going thru a whole evenings worth of searching I
couldn't tell you what the rated diameter is. If I remember
the 85 aspect ratio and 16" rims gave me somewhere between
30" and 31". I went thru all that this summer and its all
in the archives if anyone cares to search for it.

No traffic, that's why I live 60 miles west of the big city.

I keep a log book in the glove box, an old habit from the days
when I had wings. So...I can give you an accurate tank by
tank reading on the milage. The gas mileage averaged between
15 mpg and 16 mpg before I rebuilt the engine (60,000k miles),
but she used a quart of oil every couple hundred miles. I drove
it for the first four years and about 8,000 miles like that.

After complete engine rebuild by well established long time
engine rebuilding machine shop, mileage runs between 14 mpg
and 15 mpg, but it hasn't burned ANY oil in 10,000 miles.

Claims of 20+ mpg with a stock Stovebolt I won't believe
until I see documented proof of the testing of it.

"Claims of 20+ mpg with a stock Stovebolt I won't believe
until I see documented proof of the testing of it." Denny

"I accept the challenge. I think I can get 21MPG." Lugnutz

What challenge are you accepting, Lugnutz?

Denny's post/quote refers to a stock Stovebolt.

Your set up is not stock.

Sorry. I was being literal in reading the quote at the top of your post.

I can sometimes get 18 mpg at 60 mph on a flat Interstate with my non-stock 3.55 rear, with 31" tires (and SM420 - 1:1 4th gear).

1st gear in a Muncie 420 is used for pulling something really heavy. Final drive ratio is 30+:1. Anything over 16:1 is pretty low. My Muncie 420 shifts like a dream but its functionally a 3-speed and the gearing is pretty wide in ratio for modern driving. If you could mate our old engines to a modern 5-speed automatic or a 6-speed manual they would really come to life - in my opinion.

My 1-ton gets horrible mileage with its stock 235, 4:10 gears and 28" tires. But I don't care. I drive it for fun. When I have a bad day at work, its there to enjoy. I am doing the T-5 swap as it offers a lot of advantages in gear ratios through all 5 gears for modern driving.

Denny I want to compliment you and your truck - it is smooth and steers very nice.

Someone mentioned 0.63 OD ratio as a good idea.
I don't think it is a good idea for a truck with limited HP.
A common OD ratio is 0.73 or 0.75ish which can feel like quite a gap in the gears from direct to OD. A faster OD yet will be even worse getting into it.

A fast OD might be nice on paper but consider how it fits into actual driving.

I have had a few trucks with 0.80 OD and that is a nice ratio for driving because of the closeness with direct drive, you can usually run the same MPH in either gear as the road conditions dictate.
0.80 is not for making good road speed out of poor axle gearing, but with the right axle gears makes for a nice OD for driving.

Grigg

All important considerations depending on how you use the truck and what you want and need.

I don't consider 3.73 low for a first gear and 2.95 sounds to fast, both faster than I'd want as first for my 1 ton truck. 2.95 just sounds real fast, I'd have to do some research and head scratching to see what truck I've driven that has a gear like that and then imagine using it as the first gear.
I actually like the first gear on the 4 speed at 7.05 it is useful for tricky situations and getting a load started, or just taking off from a stoplight on a hill without roasting the clutch or being in a rush.
Second gear is 3.6 and quite useable, anything faster as a first gear could be to fast depending on your use, especially if you can already find a need for and like the 7.05 first gear.

Grigg

Agreed!

Not speaking for Fox, but I do know his is a dually.

Denny, I quite enjoyed your ride along video. It really is a motivator. I'd love to do that one day soon. Beautiful yard by the way. The country farms sure look a lot like the ones around here. One spot could have passed for a place a couple towns down the road!
I will go with the sm420 for now. See how it performs for the tasks at hand. If I like it, maybe put theT5 in the1/2ton or sell it.
Who knows when that will be!

Hi fox. I have a 62 c30 with a 5.14 rear end. and a 235 i6. I found with the stock 4 spd 3rd and 4th were to far apart when climbing a small grade and would have to wait to crest a hill before using top gear. I was going to use a 4.10 that I have but was concerned about spacing the gears even farther apart.
I went with a t 5 instead a 1352 072 out of a v 8 camaro which bolted right on and only to replace the clutch disc and shorten the drive shaft. I used the tail end of a s 10 t5 to get the shifter closer to the original position.
This change alone has made the truck much more driveable in town and will cruise at 65 mph at 2400 rpm.

I plan to replace the 5.14 with the 4.10 next spring as the 5.14 has a serious whine to it when working hard, but i'm wondering if this will be to high a gear and drop my rpm's to low in the torque range.

I'm not using the stock seat. I'm using a newer bench. How much further back does the t5 move the shifter? It might hit the new seat with the t5 shifter.

the t5 shifter moves the shifter forward not back. The camaro shifter is on the rear of the tailshaft housing, the s-10 version is on the front of the tailshaft housing. Look at Lugnutz t5 page.

when I tried the t 5 with the stock camaro tail housing the shifter came out between my bucket seats which would put it through a bench seat. This would make for great conversation but wouldn't be very practical .
My t5 has the 2.95 1st and the 0.63 od with 5.14 rear end and 30 in tires and will keep up with most traffic both in the city and the highway which for a 5,000 plus pound truck seems alright

How does it drive, the shift from 4th to 5th in particular? Do you find any occasion you want 5th gear for the speed but when you shift from 4th to 5th not enough power to get into the 0.63 5th, slight hill perhaps. What is the RPM drop if you have a tachometer?

Also curious about first gear, I know you have slow axle gears which helps but does 2.95 first feel low enough?

This would answer some of my earlier concerns and hesitations about this model with fast gear ratios.

Thanks,
Grigg

Actually I find the 2.95 a little low for my liking. I can leave from a stand still on level ground in 1.94 second gear without abusing the clutch. After that running through the gears the gaps are fairly consistent I run up to about 2500 rpm and it drops down to about 1800 between all gears. 2000 rpm in o/d will give me 50mph.
I searched out a .63 o/d specifically because I was under the impression the 5.14 was not interchangeable with any other ratio.
When I came across this gem of a web site ( the Stovebolt forum )
I got schooled big time.
With the info I have now I would have went with a 1352 062 or 070 as they both come out of v8 cars and have the same gear ratios save o/d which are .73 which would have matched the 4.10 ratio I plan to put in, unless of course I can correct what ever is making my current rear end whine.