The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay New Idea? Warning Buzzer- Oil Press/Water Temp

With a full flow oil filter that is outside the block connected by hoses, the thought occurred to me that unless I completely change my habits and start paying attention to gauges, I am in danger of losing an engine. With a daily driver, I feel I am not alone in that most people wouldn't catch a sudden drop in oil pressure fast enough to save the engine. Water isn't bad because it usually gives you enough warning, but nonetheless...

A Piezo Buzzer connected to a pressure warning light circuit may not be that hard to devise. I haven't done any research on this yet, but has anyone had any experience with this sort of thing? Anyone interested in helping design it?

Old news- - - -the 1964 White Freightliner I used to herd up and down the highways of California had a warning buzzer for oil pressure- - - -and coolant temperature- - - -and air brake pressure. About the only thing that didn't blink, buzz, or vibrate was the fuel gauge!

Trying to reinvent the wheel? I think that has been done a time or two also.
Jerry

I just want one for myself and anyone else who would like to have one. It's a long ways from knowing they exist to putting a system together for our trucks. I think oil pressure would be the most important. Probably would need an electrical sensor in the oil line. I want to make it so we can still use our mechanical oil pressure gauge too. Anything that can light an idiot light can sound the buzzer (I think).

I can build one from Ebay components for under 20 bucks. So can you. Get busy!
Jerry

http://www.go2marine.com/product/251725F/sierra-warning-kit-oil-pressure-temp.html

Problem with water would be teeing the original sensor with the electrical one. Interesting stuff. The idea is to make it so folks can use their current system without modifying anything, then make up a complete kit with proper length wires, terminals, fuse system, the works.

I rigged one for a fuel pump power switch on my Suburban. Teed a pressure switch into the outlet for the gauge tube. No pressure grounds it. I wired it to a relay to give power when it is not grounded.

Switched relay power to 85, 86 to pressure switch. Switched power to 30, power out from 87a.

You can use steel brake lines for the external oil filter. You could get fancy and slide rubber hose on the outside of the brake line to make it look somewhat correct.
Personally I cannot stand to hear the warning buzzers on my work truck. I asked the dealer where it was so that I could kill it. The technician told me that it was imbedded in the gauge cluster.
I then asked if there happened to be an accidental firearm discharge inside the cab, say a 22 caliber, where would would it have to strike to hit it. He laughed nervously and casually, but with purpose slunk away. I then vacated the premises with similar purpose, so as to prevent possible confrontation with the authorities.
Some people can't take a joke.
Carl

It's amazing how little information is on the internet about this. One of the sites talks about having to have a special circuit to keep the buzzer from sounding every time on startup. Cletis, what kind of relay did you use?

what makes you think anybody would be interested in such a system for a stovebolt truck? The auto manufacturers started installing aptly-named "idiot lights" instead of gauges 60 years ago because people were too lazy or too ignorant to figure out what the gauges were telling them, so there should be plenty of vehicles to drive that meet those requirements. The rest of us will scan the gauges every minute or two like we were taught by our elders.
Jerry

I used a Bosch type 5 pin relay. This diagram show what mine looks like with oil pressure. Term. 86 is not grounded, term. 30 to 87a is normally closed. When oil pressure is 0, 86 grounds and 30 to 87 closes and 87a opens. In my case, I lose power to my fuel pump. In your case, your buzzer would be wired to 87 and you gain power to the buzzer.

Now THAT's what I am talking about! THANK YOU CLETIS!

I will get the parts on order. I was testing piezo buzzers by getting the frequency, then going to a hearing test site, insert the frequency you want to hear and finding the most useful sound. My hearing is awful! Anything above 7000hz is lost on me. My wife can go clear to 12k. The 3900hz standard buzzer is really too high pitched. So, need to research that a bit before putting it all together. The solution will probably be a high-low one.

If it was visually acceptable, you could add a bright LED master warning light somewhere to catch your attention. Not sure you could do it though without having the light too large though.

Dennis

Good idea Dennis. The thing I try to be mindful of is the looks afterwards. Keeping everything looking stock is a challenge, but maybe we can get a light in there somewhere.

Hmmmm- - - -I was taught to monitor gauges by a man who had four 1,000 horsepower Wright Cyclone R-1820 engines under his command at altitudes up to 30,000 feet and cockpit temperatures approaching 30 degrees below zero. He managed to keep track of oil pressure, cylinder head temperature, turbo boost, RPM, propeller pitch, flap position, compass heading, altitude, and a dozen other vital signs, all while using both hands and both feet continuously for hours at a time to keep his B-17 airborne and his eight crewmembers alive.

Keeping up with one oil pressure gauge and one coolant temp gauge for a few miles at a time on the ground seems to be a no-brainer, even without a bunch of electronic assistance. Your mileage may vary.
Jerry

Got the Piezo buzzer and relay in today. Since I do lots of testing for everyone, it's a real Bosch relay as Charlie described. There is a much cheaper version that was made for the OEM industry and that should be here in a few days so I can compare. I will post the results here. I also have a Piezo buzzer/light combo coming in. This will give us insight on the option of doing 'idiot' light with the sound warning. Stay tuned. It's on the list of things to do. Right now, also on the list is finishing the 12 volt Heater switch mod, the bypass spin-on mod, the 216 HEI mod, the alternator shunt issue, and the stock fuel gauge 12 volt mod. I don't think its possible for anyone else to have as much fun as I do. Try! It's a wonderful thing!

Deve, if the bypass spinon mod means the Grigg style bolt on filter attachment, put me down for 2.

The way it looks now, I am using the Trans-Dapt 1028 with three choices of mounting. Griggs, which moves the filter further forward, so an Alternator is necessary since the Generator invades the real estate, or, the original one which goes right over the triangular bosses, or, the NEW clamp on style which mounts to the top frame rail right across from the triangular mounting boss. The third option is because not all 235's (not to mention most 216's) do not have the triangular mounting bosses.

Then, for the Bypass system I modify the 1028 with a 1/16th inch restrictor in the oil filter outlet. You can use your original rubber hoses, but to get around the exhaust, I offer a stainless NPT pipe solution with a Tee to eliminate any heat issues around the exhaust.

Where Griggs idea really shines is for when people have Fenton dual exhaust manifolds. You need to move the filter 5 inches forward to be far enough away from the front pipe. A local friend of mine has exactly that and was able to take pictures of his setup which is pretty darn cool. Lots of pipe fittings, but very efficient and clean. They will be in the article too.

I think we have thought of everything, but always welcome input from those who are interested in making things better. I am editing the web site to explain all this in detail, but it may take a week or two. Before I do that, it's getting this alarm system finished. Why? Because if you offer these things, it is only prudent to offer a guaranteed solution for if something goes south. There is always a purpose.

Ok, so I have the a few of these 5 pin relays, the oil pressure sensor, the LOUD two-tone buzzer and got it all wired up and it works great. HOWEVER...

The circuit as designed will beep when the ignition switch is on and there is no oil pressure. As in when you first turn on the ignition and haven't started it yet. This will not be suitable for anyone the way it is. I need to figure out a way for the circuit to know when the engine is not running. (or IS running) Any Ideas?

Yes.

Hmmm... Just reread this entire thread, and there now seems to be some posts missing...
Carl

Jerry, I never like "crossing swords" with you, but you made a mistake.
The R-1820 Cyclone 9 G series that went into most B-17's made 1200hp @ 2500rpm not 1000. Remember, I wrenched on aircraft for many years. 😀

"Mea Culpa!" I was relying on an obviously erroneous Wikipedia reference for that bit of info, and it didn't sound exactly right when I wrote it. Dad said his plane could take off with a P-40, and outclimb it to 10,000 feet at full military power. There was a "war emergency" setting for the turbos that boosted the power considerably, but they were cautioned not to use that setting unless it was absolutely necessary!
Jerry

On fighter aircraft that was called "breaking the wire". Only to be used when a ME-109 or Zero was shooting your tail feathers off. It was a water injection system which gave you a huge boost of power to get away. Shortly thereafter the engine was trash and would hardly keep the aircraft aloft. But hey, live to fight another day.

I just want you guys to know the quality of information I get from people who JUST WANT TO HELP. They have no agenda, no interest in being right or wrong. They just want to help a fellow truck enthusiast. This is from a long time electronic engineer friend of mine who designed a circuit, then decided we needed something more. The reason for the narrative is that I think you guys think that conflict and misery is just a normal thing we have to suffer through in order to get to the answer. It is not. Not by a long shot. Read:

Hello Deve,

Woke up in the middle of the night and the circuit we
worked on will not work...... There are three
variables required to make it work properly: #1
Ignition switch on, or "13.8 Volts". #2 Oil pressure sense
"Shorted or Open" AND the missing variable #3 an "Engine
Running" OR NOT running, either a 13.8 V High or Ground
Low. The way the circuit is now drawn it's going to do
the same thing as you originally had it!!....alarm with the
ignition switch on until the oil pressure goes up. You
will "have to have" an engine running signal for it to work
as you want.

I suggest using the alternator charge indicator "light" as
the engine running indication. Most alternators use
the field excitation wire with a Light Bulb in series to the
ignition switch as the Charge indicator. How this
works is: When the engine ignition switch is turned
"on" it applies excitation voltage to the alternator field
winding through the light bulb. The bulb lights up due
to opposite side of the field winding being connected to
ground. However, when the engine starts, and the
alternator spins and puts out voltage, the field winding
will have voltage induced into it which will "rise" above
the ground originally "seen" by the light bulb and the light
bulb will go out! That's how the "charge
indicator" on the dash works....(If the indicator lamp ever
opens, the alternator will not charge!!! because the field
coil is not producing a magnetic field! (That's why
it's called the "field" winding.)

A disadvantage to the car owner, but $$$ to the mechanic
that puts a new 50 cent lamp in, and charges $135.00 for
"rebuilding" the alternator....LOL

Anyway..... To get a "signal"
to inhibit the "Ahh oo ga" horn, you'll have to use the
voltage across the alternator lamp to control the horn
"inhibit" relay! I'll let you figure the
rest out..... Ha Ha

---

Do you folks understand the difference? I have a LOT of friends just like this. They freely give their information and happily help out the cause because they KNOW that what goes around comes around. God is good and for anyone to think they have a solution better than the time honored tradition of giving of themselves FAILS EACH AND EVERY TIME!

This has been a real learning process. The above post by my friend really was an AHA! moment for me. I was looking all over for a signal that represented engine off vs. engine on. This is important for an audible warning system so that when you turn the ignition key it does not start sounding right away since oil pressure is obviously low. I tried voltages at the coil, HEI distributor, even thought about adding a whole nother circuit. I don't know much about this so the alternator having a terminal made especially for this? ZOOM! Right over my head.

So, this is also an added bonus for anyone who has replaced their generator with an alternator. The new circuit will have a small light on the mounting plate that will have two relays, a fuse, and a small gauge light. I envision mounting this small plate under the dash. You won't be able to see the light from there, but if you suspect your charging system is dead or dying, you know where to look. It would not be hard at all to relocate the light if you so choose.

The small circuit will light the light during an alternator failure, but not provide an audible warning. The only audible warning will be when the oil pressure is too low (6 psi). I prefer it that way so that you can differentiate better. Since I am doing this for everyone, if you have a different opinion, now is the time. The idea is to never hear that ear piercing warning EVER unless something goes wrong with the oil system.

A good friend stopped by the shop yesterday and asked what I was doing, and he said he wanted one of those and how long did he have to wait. Maybe a few weeks. I have some small issues to iron out with my new circuit. Nothing works for me the first time. I am one of those who has to make several attempts before success. Its a training process where you make the issue understand you are not going anywhere until you have succeeded!

As I near 100 k miles on a daily driver only vehicle I can without hesitation say what a complete waste of time and effort your idea is. My engine was rebuilt at home by an elderly former water well driller. In the 16 years or so that I have had this engine in my truck I have had one failure, a broken valve spring. Personally I see no sense in complicating a perfect in it's simplicity vehicle. The 'the sky is falling' approach just doesn't do it for me...I have driven solo from coast to coast and I have ridden a bicycle solo coast to upstate NY. IMHO you start the ball rolling in regards to worrying about every little thing and you won't even leave the house. As this is my opinion and based on my own empirical evidence I will not respond to any criticisms or pm's, for this is my path through life and as Bob Dylan has said, "Most likely you'll go your way and I'll go mine."

It's all good Cosmo. The reason it's important to me at least is because of the change in filtration. If you have a 58-62 261 (or modified 235) you have a situation where if a hose goes bad, oil will be pumped out on the road until the engine is bone dry or you happen to look at the gauge within the few minutes or less it is happening. I would totally agree that bypass filter owners have no need for this. It's a fun project figuring all this out though. More to come.

Yep.

How about an under-the-hood TV camera and a dash-mounted CRT just to be sure nothing falls off?

Jerry

Well, I guess I can forget about 100% of everyone on the Stovebolt doing this! But for all the rest of you, here is the schematic so far. You can purchase the parts on Ebay or usually Amazon has most of it.

http://www.devestechnet.com/Images/Oil%20Pressure%20Alt%20Warning%20Schematic.jpg

For the cost of a Piezo Buzzer (I got the two tone version that puts out 105 db), a Bosch Style 5 pin relay, an oil pressure sensor (you can get a 1/8" NPT Tee so you can keep your old gauge), Light Socket and bulb you are good to go.

I am working on a delay circuit to keep the buzzer silent between engine on and the time it takes for the oil pump to get past 6psi. It's a second maybe, but still annoying. I also think maybe a 10 amp fuse to protect the circuit from another system in the truck causing a fault. I'll post anything new here as I get it figured out. I think there is about $40 in parts at most. The sensor is the expensive item.

To install it, you will need to find the Alternators R1 Terminal to Ignition wire (it's the alternator warn light wire) and run a new wire to the electric oil pressure sensor.

Anyone with any knowledge of how to delay the buzzer about 5 seconds to be safe, let me know. I will have a complete parts list with prices and everything as soon as I make sure of my sourcing.

Deve,

All you need is a Normally Open Timed Closed realy, your 6psi Oil Switch and Buzzer to make this work.

Power the NOTC relay coil with Keyed 12vdc and Ground.

Wire the relay N.O. contacts and oil switch contacts in series to the buzzer using the Keyed 12vdc and Ground the buzzer and your done. The NOTC relay will keep the buzzer circuit open long enough for the engine to come up to pressure. When the key is turned off the cycle starts all over again

Here's a 10 second relay I found on Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/AH3-3-0-10Sec...-16&keywords=time+delay+relay+12v+dc

Hope this helps,

Mike B

That's a really nice relay Mike! Good instructions for wiring it. Thanks! I have to delay the circuit no doubt. I am boning up on RC Time Constants as we speak so if the components or difficulty are not too great, that is a VERY elegant way to solve this. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RC_time_constant)

I wonder about availability of that relay in the future? What are your thoughts on that? The price is sure okay!

This style TD relay (8-pin, DIN rail mount) has been around for decads...

Mike B

The old Big Cam Cummins engines built from about 1977 until the late 80's used a low pressure sender that was strong enough that it didn't need a relay. With electronic engines, the ECM reads the pressure sender and turns on the light and Buzzer. The buzzer came on at around 6 psi and it was simple to wire. I would think they sending units are still available because there are still a lot of mechanical engines in service. Kysor even made a shutdown unit that read oil pressure and water temp. They were popular with fleet and lease trucks. Kysor called it an alarmstat and they are still available.

Ken, using established, field-tested technology is no fun when an untried, untested pipe dream that comes from a bong is the other option.
Jerry

Jerry... don't be casting aspersions at my bong

Say what you like about my pipe however...

Can a drug test reveal a contact high contracted from reading an internet thread? After weathering through this one, my employment livelihood may be in jeopardy.
Carl

Just don't hitch a ride to work with these guys!

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/00/81/44/0081447ad5050886ac6d6b9b23cdb85a.jpg

Jerry

I just rigged up a standard boxing glove on one of those spring loaded accordion arms to punch me when the oil pressure gets low. It's like a left cross. Works good, no buzzing until afterwards.
BTW, my neighbor's name is Piezo and his lovely wife Patina.
Their kids are Holley and Zenith.
The dogs name is Babbitt. Nice family.

Instead of a buzzer, why not just have a cd play Bowie's "Ground Control to Major Tom, Your circuit's dead, there's something wrong"

The Air Force used to use a recording of a sexy-sounding gal to warn pilots of impending disasters like low oil pressure, spiking exhaust temps, low fuel, landing gear not down and locked, etc. In reality, the voice was that of a retired Department of Defense secretary who was in her 70's!
Jerry