The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Tons 'o Fun 14 bolt Diff Swap

So I finally got around to getting a 14 bolt FF axle for my 1949 1-ton. I am currently in process of relocating the spring perches to fit my truck. My problem is if I keep my 2" leaf springs and use 2"x 12.5" u-bolts, the old 3" axle u-bolt saddles with the 2" bolt hole spread will not fit the 3.25" 14 bolt axle. I cant use the saddles that were on the 14 bolt axle due to the bolt spread (3" between holes I think). Has anyone swapped axles and what did you do to counter this problem?

I didn't realize the 14 bolt has 3.25" axle tubes.
Is there room on the original axle saddles to bore them out to fit 3.25" tube? One way or another I'd try to modify them to work, keep the 2" springs.

Yep, I plan on keeping the 2" springs, I will try to bore the saddles out first. If that does not work I might look into using the round u-bolts and put a bracket on top of the springs.

I used a heavy plate with appropriate holes on top and half round U-bolts under the axle when I swapped an axle with 4" tubes under my 1 ton. It's just not quite as clean looking as the factory saddle under the axle.
There are some sorts of factory upper brackets (instead of plate steel) but not sure where to suggest looking for one for 2" springs and 3.25" axle tube, that combo may not exist.

The new axle is actually a tab bit bigger than 3.25 at 3-3/8". I will see how much I can take off the factory saddles before attempting to invert the u-bolts.

Check front to back spacing on the holes in the saddle first. Is there room for u-bolts to fit and straddle a 3-3/8" axle tube or will they be splayed out too much?

I'll have to look, but can you saw an inch out of the center of the 14 bolt saddles and weld it back together?

I'm going to throw something out there, since nobody makes spring perches for a 14 bolt and 2" spring.

Get a 2x4 or 2x6 chunk of tube steel, hole saw a 3 1/2 or 3 3/8 hole through it.

Split it and then weld the perches to your axle. Don't forget to drill for the center pin either.

New u-bolts and a top plate should finish it off.

White dog your correct about the spring perches. I had to go with 2.5" wide spring perches. I used 2.5" u-bolts but I think there is too much gap on either side of the springs. I also modified the original saddles to work but the bolt spread is still 2"so the u-bolts are pulled in 1/2". I am quickly learning its all trial and error when you get out side the OEM design. I will probably end up getting 3-3/8" round u-bolts and make my own top plate to get a better fit. Like Grigg said it will not be as clean looking but i think it will be more effective and everything will be snug.

http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums...E-4A14-89F6-4D47C73687FC_zpsja3vgbxc.jpg

Here's one way to make wide spring pads fit narrower springs, within reason. Just notch the corners so the U-bolts fit.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ydeakI-wVgnJH8jITsPJ99MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

Grigg,
I was actually thinking about that very thing to allow my u-bolts to snug up to the springs.

I just picked up a set of these at Tractor Supply.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/carry-on-trailer-weld-on-spring-seats-5-200-lb-capacity

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/TruRyde/TRSS300.html

Off hand, they look like they're going to work just fine. When I put them on the top of my axle, there might by 1/16 of a gap on the axle, not enough to even worry about.

They're going to get welded into place anyway.

For less than $10, not a bad purchase.

I need U-bolts and a plate still. I think I'm going cut and drill a plate and buy some u-bolts

Whitedog, what type of axle are you using?

14 bolt. I've had it sitting here in the garage for well, 4 or 5 years I'm ashamed to say.

I'm getting ready to move. I'm trying to wrap up loose ends. I don't want to drag a bunch of parts I don't need to the new house.

I bought wheel bearings last week so I can put the Eaton hubs on the 14B.

Just need U-bolts. I think I can snag some plate steel from work.

Chris

Awesome, I would like to see pics of the finished product with the Eaton hubs.

Whitedog
I read a thread over on the Pirate 4x4, they eluded to the bearing swap Eaton Hubs on 14bff,they where trying to do the swap the other way 14bff hubs on Eaton would need machine work on the Eaton. And sence I've done a full rebuild on my Hucks brakes, I would like to do this swap for the gear ratio.
SO PLEASE POST BEARING AND SEAL NUMBERS.
AND IMMORTALIZE you're self here on the Stovebolt or maybe a sticky/tec tip.

The details I remember on the hub swap are fuzzy... Please remind me what the goal was/is?
To use the old brakes on new axle?
Are there any other advantages or possibilities that the Eaton hubs offer on the 14 bolt, alternate track width, compatibility with the newer 14 bolt brakes?

Personally I welcome the use of the newer brakes that come on the 14 bolt, and the cheap easy to get replacement parts.

Thanks,
Grigg

There's no real rhyme or reason for me to swap out to Eaton hubs on the 14 bolt. It falls more in the dare to be different category.

I have a 67" axle assembly. I picked up some dually hubs along the way, which would've been a straight forward swap in order to make a 63" axle. I would've needed use some late 80's/early 90's van drums in order to make the whole brake system mesh.

Somewhere along the way I got the idea of rear disc brakes and robbed a setup off of an 07 van.

The early 14 bolt hubs, wouldn't let the rotor slide on, they would need to be pressed on the backside, like the early 14B drums.

So, having an Eaton axle here, I found out that the rotors would go over top of the hub, if you removed the sheet metal oil shield.

The Eaton Spindle is about .010 larger than the 14 bolt, so I thumbed through the Timken catalog and found that the 14 bolt inner bearing can be used with the Eaton bearing race. For the outer bearing I would need Eaton 362 race and 368A bearing.

The seals for the 14B and Eaton are the same, so nothing new needed there.

The "New" axle setup should be around 64-65" WMS, which should fit between the fenders fine. So, if someone can't find a 63" axle, you could always use the Eaton hubs.

One of the biggest advantage to what I'm trying is less rotatating mass. The 14B brake drums weigh 45-50 lbs, whereas a brake rotor is about half of that. The Eaton hubs are smaller also, They probably weigh a few pounds less too. So, in effect, you're losing 20-30 lbs per wheel in rotating mass. That has to account for something.

Chris

Excellent, I'll be watching.

Grigg

Did you guys conclude that the 14-bolt Chassis-cab dually axle was the one to use with single wheels. I don't care if the drums show. Just need the WMS dimension to be close to the AD truck's dimension. And, of course enough clearance between the backing plate and the U-bolts.

I have found a 76 c-30 CC axle but I haven't bought it yet.

I'm curious as well. I had read through another Grigg post, which I can't locate now, that involved swapping out the differential from a 73-late 80s 3/4 or 1 T with 4.11, 3.56 or some other more favorable ratio for the 5.11 or whatever it is in my 1950 GMC250.

I was planning on that direction and then adding 2500 disc brakes front and rear, there's a guy that sells 2500 disc brake conversion kits for the original rear ends.

I guess with the C&C swap, you get the better rear end ratio and maybe have an easier path to disc brakes...

Yes, the 14 bolt from a cab and chassis truck (which has duals) has essentially the same width at the wheel mounting surface as the AD 1 ton rear axle (single and dual), close enough it makes no practical difference.

This is the 4.10 gear swap tech tip for the original Eaton axle.
http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/axles/1%20Ton%20Upgrade/

Here's how I did it, see the post dated about 30/12/15
https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthread...C_1_ton___-_Improve-Dri.html#Post1163680