The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Valve adjustment verification

I have done a lot of searching on the topic of valve adjustments. That is my problem. I adjusted my valves and was of course super proud of that fact until it dawned on me that there is about a 98% chance that I have hydraulic lifters and I adjusted the valves as though they are solids.

The motor is a 1958 235 that was originally mated to a Powerglide tranny. Is there an easy way to verify whether or not they are Hydraulic?

I have seen numerous ways to set the valves when you have hydraulic lifters and, just like my research on timing, a lot of them contradict each other.

So, my plan is to tighten the adjuster to zero lash and then tighten 1/4-1/2 a turn and lock it down, as outlined in the following article.

http://devestechnet.com/Home/ValveAdjust

So, what I am looking for is confirmation that this is indeed the proper way to do it. The shop manuals I have seen are of little use, as they usually say they don't need adjustment.

Thanks! Andy

Post the Engine Serial Number that is pressed into the block in the ledge to the rear of the distributor. That will confirm car or truck engine.

In 1958, the Powerglide transmission was only used in cars - it would have come from the factory with hydraulic lifters

In all years, all Powerglide equipped 235s (except in Corvettes) had hydraulic lifters.

All 1956 and later car 235s (all transmissions) came equipped with hydraulic lifters.

All truck 235s came from the factory with mechanical lifters.

I can post the numbers later but I have already looked them up and it is said to have come with a Powerglide trans and I had already been told that the engine came from a car. It is just that, with my luck, the lifters could have been changed. I a working under the assumption that they are hydraulic lifters, I would just like to be able to visually verify that if possible.

If I am unsure if an engine has solid or hydraulic lifters I adjust number one exhaust as a hydraulic and run the engine to see if the engine misses or runs smooth.
If they are solids it will continue to miss.
If hydraulic it will smooth out as it bleed down to its working position.
This is best done with a warm engine as the lifters will be slow to bleed down with cold oil. With warm oil it happens almost immediately.

If you want to see visually, hydraulic lifters have a snap ring in the top to retain the piston.

Here's a quick way to verify the presence (or not) of hydraulic lifters. Warm up the engine, stop it and get a cylinder near TDC on the compression stroke by getting the distributor rotor pointed toward one of the plug wires. Use a pry bar to put firm pressure downward against the pushrod side of a rocker arm on that cylinder for 2-3 minutes. If the engine has hydraulic lifters approximately a 1/8" gap will be created slowly between the other end of the rocker and the valve stem. Solid lifters will not allow the gap to change. When the engine is restarted, that rocker will clatter for a short time until the lifter refills itself.
Jerry

Thanks for the responses! Now, to the original question which is, assuming they are hydraulic, is what I posted in the original post the way to adjust them properly?

No, the factory recommendation is to take out the slack with the adjuster with both valves fully closed, then tighten the adjuster an additional 1 1/2 turns. The lifter plunger will retract slowly to the midpoint of its travel. Most of us consider this to be too much preload, and the conventional wisdom is to tighten the adjuster about 3/4-1 turn beyond the "zero lash" point. Do this adjustment with the engine stopped, not running, with each cylinder at top dead center of the compression stroke, and by the time you get around to all six cylinders by turning the engine to TDC compression by hand, the lifters will have assumed the proper retraction. Ignore advice about trying to do a running adjustment on hydraulic lifters- - - -it doesn't work.
Jerry

There is no procedure that's worth anything that talks about adjusting hydraulic lifters while running. The only difference in what Jerry says (which is absolutely valid) is the procedure on my website recommends 1/2 turn after the slack is taken up. That is due to the authors experience over years and his feeling that a turn and a half is way too much. There is no penalty really for doing it either way.

That is really the beauty of hydraulic lifters. So easy to adjust and it takes a long time for them to be out of adjustment if ever.

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the input.

Andy

I can not adjust valves with hydraulic lifters when the engine is running.

My dad could. I watched him do it many times. Dad, was a dealership mechanic. You had to find ways to be fast to beat the book.

The only reason I try and keep these sorts of things out of my articles is because they are aimed at helping the hobbyist better understand the processes it takes to restore their trucks. But I do not write everything on my web site by design. I want to use the most knowledgeable people in their areas of expertise, so I don't always get my way.

Another quick question. Does the engine need to be hot in order to adjust hydraulic lifters?

Cold is fine.
The only problem can be the slow bleed down of the lifters with cold oil.
This can result in no compression at first preventing the engine from starting.
It could take several minutes before the engine will start.
They will bleed down faster with warm oil.

No. The reason being, you have to start somewhere. On a newly assembled engine, you need a starting point. Set them cold, then once you get everything optimized, go back and check your adjustment when it's warm. It may have changed since the first time you start it, there is no (or very little) oil in the lifters. I never rely on adjusting much of anything just once.

It won't change all that much because the oil leaks out after the engine is shut off anyway. That's my take on it.

Success has been achieved! I tried two of the methods described above to determine if I had Hydraulic lifters and they were both inconclusive to me. So, I just decided to take a peek under the side cover and, low and behold, there are hydraulic lifters under there, just like there should be! I was beginning to wonder even more due to the discovery of a brief maintenance log my grandpa kept for this truck and he had a lot of things changed.

So, I printed out the directions from Deve's web site and used that as my guide. I stuck with the 1/2 turn after zero lash.

This is truly like driving a different truck. I never realized just how loud the valves were until now. I can actually hear the exhaust! And unfortunately i can now also hear the exhaust leak I new it had.

This seems to have solved another problem I had, which was that it did not seem like going over 40 mph was possible without doom and destruction. Today I saw 50 mph for the first time since I got this thing up and running

It just seems so quiet, smooth and powerful. Thanks to all for the help!

andy

Always glad to hear about success! Another thing I learned recently that I need to add to an article:

1) Remove the intake/exhaust manifolds and take them all apart. Good time to order a new gasket set, damper spring, studs for the exhaust, etc. before you start.

2) Check for cracks, paint as you wish then install the new gasket between the intake/exhaust and keep that connection a little less than finger tight.

3) Put the alignment rings back in and the new gaskets with no sealer. Reinstall the manifold set, tighten to torque spec, THEN tighten the connection between the two.

4) Remove the intake and exhaust as a unit (with the new gasket in place between them) and tighten the bolts and nuts that hold them together tighter if needed.

5) Take the whole assembly down to your local machine shop and they will resurface them as a unit. Once you have a shiny new straight surface, no more manifold leaks.

I did this yesterday on my test engine. They did it while I waited! The cost was $46.00. I should have done that when I did everything else! I didn't have any leaks before, but it's something that gets neglected.

You can check the alignment of the two manifolds with a straight edge after you follow Deve's advice above to potentially save the $46.00. I use a carpenter's level.
I don't know of any machine shops around here who will ask you, "how is your day going?" for under $100, let alone do any machine work. On top of that, you will have to wait for one month to get your parts back.
Carl

I gotta admit I was floored. I didn't even get "do you want it now or are you leaving it with us". It was "give me a few minutes". Carl is right of course, if it's straight already, don't bother.

Okay, I know this is not going to help the OP, but it's worth mentioning. You do not have to remove the side cover to see if you have hydraulic lifters or solids. You can take the rocker assembly off the head, then remove a rod and shine a flashlight down in the hole. Easier and doesn't require a new gasket.

If you have hydraulics, there are retaining springs on top. They look like little retainer clips holding the assembly together. The solids just have a machined area for the rod to sit on.

I was doing some maintenance on my 261 and since it's been awhile, I wanted to verify. Sure enough, that's the easiest way if you were forgetful and forgot to write that small item down somewhere.