The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay 1938 starting issue

1938 straight 6 pickup. 6 volt. Hooked up as neg ground. Get power to the + side of my coil with key on. Power to - side when try to turn engine over. No sign of power ( tester not light up) at top of coil or at plugs when key on or when engine cranked over. Points spark when "clapped" when key on.

Engine turns and cranks but no sign of firing over at all. New coil -nada. Tried old coil too. Same thing. Tried new cap and rotor with no affect. Old parts not work either.

Dang thing ran before I put in new points, plug wires, etc. I am truly stumped.

I should get power out of top of coil when engine cranked, correct? Any ideas??

Did you replace one ignition wire at a time or did you just take all of the old ignition wires off all at the same time?

You could have your firing order messed up.

How and where are you checking for spark? Ignition wires at the plug end?

Coil wire at the cap end?

No mention of condenser in your post. A bad condenser and you will not get a spark. Condenser was new does not mean new condenser can not be bad out of the box.

Point gap setting is?

I believe I have the correct firing order. I took the distributor cap off and first plug out. The compression finger "push" test lined up the rotor to my #1.

I've checked for spark at the end of the plug wire, at the center of the coil and at the distrib cap end of coil wire. I used the test light on the coil and did not do a spark test with the block. I will try that. I did do a spark test with screwdriver with the end of the plugs and got nothing. I did replace the condenser and did not put the old one back. I also have not put the old points back in. I will try putting the old condensor back in. The points are new. Could the point be bad?

I have the points set at the standard matchbook setting. Could my condensor by grounded out?

Any other thoughts appreciated. Thanks.

Is you firing order: 1-5-3-6-2-4

in clockwise rotation?

Buy a feeler gauge then set your point gap.

180 degrees later and the piston will be pushing up air against your finger.

Your ignition timing can be 180 degrees off because the finger test is not reliable for you will feel air on both upstrokes of the piston.

Have you tested the system with a dwell tach meter?

Do you have a 6v dwell/tach meter?

Yes my firing order is clockwise 1-5-3-6-2-4. I do have feeler gauge. What should my gap setting be? I don't have a dwell meter but can buy one. What would that test be or show me?

My problem is that I don't appear to be getting spark to the plugs. Firing order won't affect that. I dont think the points being off a bit would either.

Thanks for all the help/insight.

18 for the point gap. If you have a point file clean the new points and then set the gap. I've seen new out of the box points that need the contacts touched up to work.

Does the cap and rotor match up with what you took out? I understand there were 2 different sizes. I'd also revert to the old parts as a cheap test. Could the battery be too weak?

Dennis

Using the ice pick type test light, ground the pigtail lead and touch the coil terminal connected to the distributor wire. (- terminal, if the coil polarity is correct). With the points open, the light should illuminate. Tap the starter, roll the vehicle forward in gear, or use some other method to turn the engine slightly until the points close. With the points closed, the light should go out. If the light does not illuminate with the points open, you have a grounded circuit upstream of the points, like where the stud goes through the side of the distributor. If it does not go out with the points closed, you have dirty or oxidized points, or an open circuited primary wire between the coil (-) terminal and the distributor. A shorted condenser can also cause a no spark condition. Once you get the test light connected to the distributor side of the coil flashing on and off as the engine is cranked, you should also get a spark at the plugs.
Jerry

A dweel/tach meter attaches to the plus and minus of the coil.
It can show various items, from point resistance to if your point gap is set right as well as used to set up carburetor idle and mixture screw.

If dwell reads in the right range then the points are adjusted to the right gap. Dwell reflects the period the points are open in degrees.

If you see a dwell reading near the right range while cranking the engine then your coil should be getting the proper pluses it needs to fire.

Some meters do not like 6V systems, I have two old analog units that do not care 6V 12V Neg ground or Pos ground, they work and read correctly. I had a fancy digital multimeter that would read dwell and it did not care (now if I just could find where I put it).
I do not know if any one has tried the HF units to see if they read.

A dwell meter is simply a voltmeter with a different scale. "Dwell", the time the points are closed ("dwell together") will read as zero volts at the terminal on the downstream side of the coil since the points are connected to ground. When the points are open, the meter will read full battery voltage, since no current is flowing. For instance- - - -30 degrees of dwell (out of a possible 45 degrees) which is normal for a V8 engine means the meter is grounded 66% of the time. The 66%/33% relationship of zero volts/battery volts will yield a cranking measurement of approximately 4 volts if the battery voltage is 12. While running, with an alternator voltage of 14 will give a "dwell" voltage of around 4.6 volts at the (-) coil terminal. A 66% dwell setting for a 6 cylinder engine of 40 degrees will yield a similar voltage reading. Since a digital meter will respond too quickly to the voltage changes, an analog meter works best for setting dwell as a function of voltage. A digital meter will usually yield an unintelligible random display.
Jerry

Listen to Jerry...
And MAKE SURE that the stud thru the distributor body is NOT making contact with it!
That stud needs to be totally insulated in the 2 piece bakelite bushing or no ticky,no shirty.
If it ran before You disturbed that stud to change the points,chances are that's your problem.
regards,
steve sr.

FYI if you never seen one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271112134682
6V dwell meter digital

Thanks Don

And thanks to all for all the great insight!!! Amazing knowledge on this site and it is GREATLY appreciated. The stud issue may also be it. We noticed the bake o lite piece on the distrib did not span the gap and tried to cure with electrical tape.

I believe the insulator in the side of the distributor is a 2-piece affair. The inside part sometimes breaks or gets lost, and if the spring on the points touches the distributor housing, the voltage grounds there and it's like the points are closed all the time- - - -no spark. I think one of the parts vendors who advertise here have repop parts for that insulator. I make my own insulator bushings on the lathe out of Teflon.
Jerry

Jerry

It is a two piece piece. Mine has a bit of a gap in the middle, ie it doesn't completely cover the stud going through the distributor.

No sure this is/was arcing but will put thicker insulator on it.