The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 235 Engine Rebuild Questions

I always preface things with I really don't know what I am doing, so your expertise is always appreciated.

When installing the wick style (rope) in the rear crank block and cap, is there anything you can do now to prevent rear main seal leakage later other than just installing it right? Copper gasket sealer? Thanks!

The last one I did came with a spacer used to make the cut, leaving the end a bit long for a compression fit once the cap was tightened. Some recommend a dab of Permatex #2 on the ends. Mine doesn't leak after 5,000 miles.
Carl

Carl did you take the advice and use Permatex on the ends? BTW, how did you cut this stuff?

Was I right about cutting Fel-Pro seals Deve?

Of course you were right. How do you cut this stuff? I have the sharpest surgeons scissors and exacto knives known to man. Nothing touches the stuff. The thought occurred to me to burn it off, but I just cant muster the guts to do it!

Here is what happens when the ends fray This was a learning lesson not to use Fel-Pro seals.

Page not found

Try it now.

I have always done it the way the GMC book says. I would suppose the same applies to Chev. I couldn't get it all to fit in one picture with my phone camera. I had to make two pages out of one. I use a razor blade instead of a pocket knife.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/1126369...4154828482&oid=112636930370126476644

https://plus.google.com/u/0/1126369...9920236722&oid=112636930370126476644

I don't think an sealant will help. Either you get it in right or you don't. I cut them almost flush, and then pack them a little with a drift punch. I have never had a gusher, but they all weep a little.

Thanks guys. The gasket set that came with the build didn't have any other choices, and I don't have the orange ones lying around. I decided to order a rubber seal set. NAPA has them and I can have them first thing Tuesday. Part Number is
FPG BS13363.

Make sure the seal surface on the crank is still 3.875".
If this area has been turned down during a crank grind the neoprene seal will not work.

I will check that later today. Thanks!

A "trick" on the neoprene seal: Install with a bit of offset in the block and matching offset in the cap. That way the joint line between the halves won't match up with the seam line on the block and bearing cap. A drop of Permatex on the ends of the neoprene seal works as well. I have had good results with this. Rope seals, are not equal. The brand "Best seal" is the one to use. They will cut, and seal and fit. I have no idea how to cut the Kevlar like material the others use.

Thanks Steve, good tip. I should have the new one by Tuesday mid morning if all goes well. The crank IS 3.875 so I am good to go.
Dave, wouldn't it be kind of bone headed to grind that part of the crank? The seals are iffy enough already! Don't tell me you have seen some that were?

You might also see what condition your seal surface is in. In my case the surface looked like this:
http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p535/JonGoodman/ropesealcrankend.jpg

Because common sense told me that would eat the neoprene seal up in a hurry, I cleaned it very well and polished it only until I achieved a nice smooth finish with no craters:
http://s1154.photobucket.com/user/JonGoodman/media/Crank%20polished.jpg.html

When I put it in for a test fit, I shined a bright light on the back side of the crank and could see a sliver of light on one side no matter where in rotation the crank was. It was also obvious the seal I had was not a tight edge fit in the groove, so I used adhesive foil tape (about .003 thick) to make a shim to bring the seal up snug against the seal surface and on the back side of the seal to make the 2 pieces fit tightly in the grooves. The lower seal is set in place with some gasket sealer, but the top seal isn't.

We'll see how it works when I get the engine in and started.
Jon

PS...this was a 1959 235 engine and the seal was a Victor Reinz(orange). I bought 3 of them a month or three ago when Rock Auto Parts sent me a note saying they were closing them out for $2.33 each.
Jon

It is quite common to remove pits. It is not that big of deal when using a rope seal.

I see on Rock Auto's site they list a "new design" Fel-Pro rope seal. It looks like a finer materiel than there old seals. Has anyone used these? How do they cut. Is this what you got Deve?

Yup. They don't cut for *&@! It was a new Fel-Pro Gasket set that came with the rebuild. VERY fine material, but I tried razor blades, surgical scissors, wire cutters, exacto knife and nothing would allow me to have a nice clean cut. Wish I knew what the trick was.

They should make a speedi sleeve for that area. No?

It was very common to polish the seal area on GMC cranks. I suppose it was the same thing on Chev. I just can't imagine not being able to cut a rope seal. Are you guys doing it the way GMC recommends like I showed in a previous post? I have even installed a lot of them using a Sneaky Pete.

http://www.lislecorp.com/divisions/products/?product=134

After I packed them in with a drift punch, I cut them with a razor blade and that was that.

Old NOS seals were not to hard to cut, but the Fel-Pro are imposable to cut without really fraying the ends.
It my link above you can see how the crank grabbed the frayed ends and pulled them down with the turning crank. This caused the seal to leak. This happens even if the ends are packed in.
Best Gasket seals do not have this problem, they cut like cutting black licorice. I will use nothing else any more, except Neoprene.

I wish you could be here to see this. I think the problem is its the NEW IMPROVED Fel-Pro Seal. Maybe the older ones cut decently. You have to see this to believe it. Now that I am going with the neoprene ones, I might try the burning method. I have been told I am a really stupid person, but puhlease!

If it doesnt cut EXACTLY thru the outer black skin, through the fabric inside and out the back side perfectly, it is either too long or too short. This is unacceptable to me. Do I want to KNOW it WILL leak because its just a hair too short? Or too long so its jamming up in the bearing housing? I mean WOW!

Fel-Pro used to be kind of the standard of the industry. But I haven't used them in years. They are probably ok for modern engines, but I don't drive modern vehicles long enough to need gaskets. And I buy my gaskets for Cummins from Cummins. Best specializes in vintage engines. Fel-Pro is owned by Federal Mogul, markets through places like Auto Zone and O'Riley which puts them in the same category of Chinese knock offs. The last Best gasket set I bought for a GMC was just like what I used back in the 50's.

I've tried both brands and I'll take the Best Gasket rope seal gasket kit every time.

Dave

Anybody know where you can buy the Best brand gasket? Have a reorder # for the one that fits a 216?

Ron's Classic Car Gaskets

He/They sells on eBay and will sell directly if you contact him/them.

[email protected]
(I have received mail with this email address from Jeff & Ron)

Jeff Sperling
516 221 1949

He/They are on Dave's list:

Ron's Classic Car Gaskets
Baldwin, NY
[email protected]

At work we have a tool for cutting rope packing material for repacking steam valves. Makes nice clean cuts, material is very similar to rope rear seal. Hope this helps

Dave,

What is the brand and part number/name of the tool?

Is it a portable tool that would be able to cut off a rope that is in place and is protruding from seat/channel?

(shown in figures 23 and 24)

I hate to break this to you all, but the neoprene rubber ones have been discontinued. I can't find them ANYwhere. If anyone has any leads, please let me know! NAPA online shows them, but then it comes back as discontinued. Doesnt make me feel any better what Jon said about RockAuto either!

Did you check Best Gasket, Deve?

http://www.bestgasket.com/pop_up_picture.asp?PartNumber=4519S

Yes. Its not available from them. At least when I searched the site it wasn't there. I ordered a rope seal from them anyway with a message to please sub it for a rubber one if available.

Do you have an order placement URL for them with that part number? Your searching ability is far far superior to mine. Thanks Tim. The site on the internet doesnt have them anyway.

I have sent them an email-message, Deve
Ron's Classic Car Gaskets
http://www.bestgasket.com/distributors.asp

I'll report back with their reply.
That seal is pricey: $45-$55 each (prices listed by "sellers").

on-line catalog

Do not hesitate to use a Best Gasket seal Deve.

Rock Auto shows one left...$11.26 FelPro. You have to search in 1958 BelAir (235 engine) to find it. Here is a link. If it is gone by the time you get there, let me know and we'll see what we can do.
Jon
link:
https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php

Tim,
Gasket material is held in place in the tool and used on the bench. close measurement would have to be made. It's also capable of making opposing 45 degree cuts for an over lap. I don't know name or prt # of tool and I won't be back to work until Thursday night.

I am getting more and more confused with what the whole problem is. Best rope seals are just about what GMC seals were 50 years ago. I always packed them in and cut them with a pocket knife or razor blade like GMC suggests in their service manual.

https://plus.google.com/11263693037...9920236722&oid=112636930370126476644


https://plus.google.com/11263693037...4154828482&oid=112636930370126476644

Am I missing something something that is that different between GMC and Chev or is the old method just too simple?

No Ken, there is a less weepy solution in the neoprene seal that USED to be available. If it isn't available, I have a Best Gasket rope seal on order, and I will be doing it your way.

Problem is, FelPro went to a different type of rope seal that is impossible to cut. Thats the one I got stuck with. I sure hope the second try is the charmer!

Chevrolet went to rubber seal sometime between 1955/56-1959.

The Best Gasket rubber seal (55/56-62) is at the link I posted above (part number 4519S):
http://www.bestgasket.com/pop_up_picture.asp?PartNumber=4519S

The Best Gasket rope seal (all years) for Chevrolet sixes is (part number 6100):
http://www.bestgasket.com/pop_up_picture.asp?PartNumber=6100

The Best Gasket GMC rope seal (1937-1962) is "rope" (part number 5144):
http://www.bestgasket.com/pop_up_picture.asp?PartNumber=5144

Jon, Rockauto canceled my order due to out of stock. So far, Autozone, Oreillys, NAPA, RockAuto, Summit are out of stock.

Usually, when I get a gasket set from the machine shop, they come with both. This last one didn't. This leads me to suspect that someone made a decision to stop making them, and everyone listed above gets them from the same place. Cant prove it.