The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop clifford intake carb options

Recently acquired a clifford intake for 216 motor on my 49 3100. Can I run a Rochester carb? If not what are my options? Anybody else running clifford 2/4 barrel intake?

Here is the intake

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...ot_2015-01-16-23-16-01-1_zpsjj5dgrvv.png

Finding a 4 BBL carb small enough to work on a 216 will be interesting. Even one of the tiny carbs used on the 56 Corvette 265 V8 dual 4 BBL setup would be too big for a 216, and they're so scarce and expensive it's ridiculous to even think about using that one. A 4 BBL on a 216 is a solution to a nonexistent problem, unless you plan to push the truck on and off the trailer at a car show and never run the engine.
Jerry

I'm sorry the Rochester I'm referring to is a 2 barrel.

What size engine was the 2-barrel designed for?

What is the carburetor model?
Can you show a photo of the base?
There might be a base adapter available.

My friend actually has the carb right now but it came off a 283 61 impala. I'm sure I can find a plate but not sure about the linkage or how to go about finding it. I'll get it soon and repost

Good get there. I'd save that intake for a 235 or a 261. You're going to have a laundry list of things to do to make it work like

-throttle linkage, rods or cable? neither is plug and play, a bit of fabrication.

-manifold heat, water or exhaust? as above, fabrication

-Carburation, There are 2 bbl plates available but with an unmodified 216, you will lose efficiency

-lose originality for a less efficient set-up

That said I will use a Clifford Intake just like the one you have on a 261 (60 over), ported head, Clifford cam, period corvette type dual exhaust manifold, 390 cfm 4bbl carb.

I think it's a good piece just the wrong application for an unmodified 216.

I'm not looking for originality on my truck. I've also got split headers that are going on also and running dual flow masters. As of right now the truck has a crappy 1 barrel zenith on it and it's leaking pretty bad. Also the exhaust manifold is trashed because one bolt is gone where it bolts up to exhaust flange. I got this intake for 30 bucks so I can afford alittle fab work and parts to make it work if possible. Plus adding a few horses won't hurt this old truck at all

I'm not looking for originality on my truck. I've also got split headers that are going on also and running dual flow masters. As of right now the truck has a crappy 1 barrel zenith on it and it's leaking pretty bad. Also the exhaust manifold is trashed because one bolt is gone where it bolts up to exhaust flange. I got this intake for 30 bucks so I can afford alittle fab work and parts to make it work if possible. Plus adding a few horses won't hurt this old truck at all

Check into using one of the Zenith 2-barrels for truck engines from the mid-1940's on up to mid-1950's. They can be adapted to different CID's by changing venturis, etc. There are usually a bunch of them on Ebay at pretty reasonable prices. You'll need a 4-gas exhaust analyzer to set one up properly, and it would be great if you can rig it to be mobile so you can check the mixture under load on a road test. I've logged hundreds of miles that way while tinkering with main jets, metering rods, ignition timing advance curves, etc.
Jerry

For what it's worth, I have a Clifford intake on my 261 and mechanic suggested a Ford Motorcraft 2100 2 bbl which I purchased and we used. It has what I think is called a hot air choke which takes heat through a tube from exhaust manifold to choke thermostat. When cold, choke plate is closed, as engine warms heat from exhaust tube opens choke plate to a non choke position. We are not using manifold heat. It was 9 degrees here this am, and she started up on first try. We did not try to mess with linkage, we used cable and firewall mounted gas pedal. Hope this helps.

It is not the displacement of 216 that makes life with a 4-barrel interesting; rather the lack of oiling, and the maximum useable RPM.

4-barrel carbs have been factory supplied on smaller displacement engines; and have worked quite successfully.

But the 216 was rated for 3300 RPM. Even a full pressure 235 was rated at a maximum RPM of 4200.

The GM 215 CID aluminum V-8 had a 4-barrel option. So did the Pontiac 195 CID 4-banger, and even the Chrysler 170 CID six!

As far as the 195 Pontiac, 2 different 4-barrel sizes were offered: 400 CFM and 625 CFM!!!

But there are a number of individuals that frequent these forums that would love to have that "crappy 1 barrel zenith". Zenith made some of the finest single barrel carbs ever built anywhere in the world regardless of price!

And one suggestion:

Do the headers and the split exhaust.

Then, BEFORE changing to a different carburetor, do an electrical tune-up, and with a friends help do 3 clocked 0-50 MPH runs. Write the times down, and do an average. Now once you have installed whatever carburetor you decide on, do 3 more timed runs, and compare the average to the present "crappy zenith 1 barrel". The results may surprise you. You might just find a two barrel to be SLOWER!

I personally owned one of the Pontiac 195's with the 625 CFM that I subsequently replaced with one of the 400 CFM units. 0 - 60 times were about 2 seconds QUICKER with the smaller carb!

Jon.

I wasn't referring to the zenith actually being a crappy carb actually just the state it's in right now. I've read allot of post you've commented on and zenith has been the topic a few times. The truck is updated to 12 volts and I'm about to throw in a electronic ignition module which should help a good bit. I'll get my exhaust ran and leave the zenith on for now and see what she does. .. thanks for the tips and comment!

Check out the inner number on the round tag on the Zenith. This will tell you what Zenith you have.

If going to an electronic ignition module, make sure you also install an alternator! Electronics require a more stable voltage than is possible with a generator at lower RPM's.

Jon.

alternator already in place

Just to be sure before i proceed because i cant find any info on this specific intake model # c5500 ... Will this take a two barrel carb? Im no carb / intake expert but the plane in the middle is throwing me towards 4 barrel?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...ot_2015-01-16-23-16-01-1_zpsjj5dgrvv.png

Scroll down on this page. 2 to 4 adapter is there. May be what your looking for, Good luck...
http://www.cliffordperformance.net/

I'm not saying I can't make it fit. .. is it designed to take a 2 barrel is what I'm asking? This is not the intake they offer now with the wide open hole.

http://www.cliffordperformance.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/42-4500WH%20300.jpg

That is the model I have that is the first generation 2-4 bbl that Clifford made for our engines. I believe the bottom although untapped for a heat plate can easily be adapted for a heat plenum for exhaust heat. I made my own heat plate on the bottom of an old period intake and it works real well.

I think it's 'Call Clifford Time'. I'd ask them about heat to the carb and orientation while I had them on the phone.

You've exposed a lot of good information, I wish you great success!

I've got a old ford 2 barrel water heated base plate laying around that may just work on this intake. I'll try and contact them. Thanks

I just got off the phone with clifford and the guy told me that this intake is basically useless on the street as it was made for oval track racing and there's no way to heat the bottom of the manifold....

That is 100% wrong. Flip that intake over and tell me if that doesn't look exactly like a stock manifold bottom (w/o the holes of course). Grigg, here on this board is a machinist. He took my thread damaged aluminum Edelbrock 216-235 intake bottom and repaired it with Helicoil inserts. I fabbed a heat plate for the bottom exhaust off of the Fenton headers.

I don't have a good picture of the bottom of this intake.... but it is exactly like your Clifford.

It does but don't have any holes in it at all

It does but don't have any holes in it at all

I have that exact Clifford manifold and yes, from a race car engine. They are not water cooled so they can be easily drilled by a competent machinist. In fact you could do it yourself on a home drill press. Even if you drill the two outside holes too deep, no harm ,no foul. You can just seal around the bolts. I think Clifford was just playing it safe with you.

I agree with Drew, yes, no holes, yet a blank canvas so that you can do this.

Ok I've opted to NOT install this intake. I pulled everything and my zenith is a 11147 model as shown in pics below. Is this bolt supposed to be there? ... sure doesn't look right. Also I can't get intake separated from exhaust manifold because of this 1 crazy looking bolt. .. doesn't look like the rest?

Carb

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/pdinkle75/Mobile%20Uploads/20150218_182047_zpsovaesgos.jpg

Bolt

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/pdinkle75/Mobile%20Uploads/20150218_182057_zpsjjebrubi.jpg

Intake Bolt

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/pdinkle75/20150218_181132-1_zpsu9lenorb.jpg

Should my carb have this adjustable main jet? Where mine has a bolt?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/pdinkle75/zenithmodel228part034475_zpsqzgctybs.jpg

The bolt definately does not belong.

Some carbs have the adjustable main metering jet; others simply have a hex plug which covers the access hole for the main metering jet. Without knowing the tag number, no way to know; and even with the tag number would have to pull a print off of a 500' roll of microfilm.

Jon.

It's the OEM carb. I stated model in post above carbking

Got the original intake cleaned up and painted along with the carb.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/pdinkle75/20150220_214446_zpsasknbhok.jpg