The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Ramps vs Jack Stands

I need to get under my truck (1953 Chevy 3100) and start replacing my brake system components, starting with the master cylinder and then the hard lines. I was thinking about using my floor jack to lift each end and put rhino ramps under each wheel. The reason for wanting to do this instead of jack stands is that it will take me several sessions to get this work done and I thought I could get the truck elevated and leave it until I was done and ready to move to each wheel for servicing the brakes. Then I'd have to get it back on the ground and use the jack stands while replacing each wheel's brakes.

My question is: is it better to use the jack stands or are the rhino ramps (or similar type) suitable for leaving under load for a couple of weeks? Can I leave them under load if I put the jack stands as a backup or should I just not leave them under load?

Your best bet would be to go ahead and put the jack stands under it, much safer.

Using jack stands with the wheels off will make it much easier to get to the wheel cylinders.

I've heard others say that it is safer with the jack stands, but never understood why. It would seem that having the wheels engaged on the ramps would provide a more stable platform than the axles engaged on the jack stands. Is the issue that the ramps may fail or that they may slip or that the truck may roll off? I'm anticipating having to really work to get the master cylinder off of the truck and am concerned about being under it while it is on the jack stands and pulling hard on a socket wrench.

I don't care for the ratchet type of jack stands. I have seen them slip because the pawl wasn't on far enough and I have seen the teeth rip right off of cheap ones. One our trucks, this is the jack stand we use. http://www.zoro.com/i/G2007293/?utm...eed&gclid=CJXvr9SJ6sICFc1_MgodUxAAgQ

This would be overkill for a pickup, but it is the only type of jack stand I really trust.

These are the ramps we use when we service our trucks.

http://www.otctools.com/products/20-ton-wide-truck-loading-ramps

They look pretty safe, but we had an incident not very long ago that could have been a tragedy. One of our guys did not have both wheels over the stop. One of the wheels was balanced on the stop. While he was in the tool room, the ramp shot out from under the truck and hit a locker that we keep supplies in. It wrecked the locker to where the door wouldn't shut. Of course all the conditions were just right. They hadn't done a good clean up after the previous service and it was right before a norther and the concrete had sweated.

The bottom line is, I don't let my guys get under a vehicle unless it has wheels on it. If it has wheels on it, it may fall to the point where you are stuck and have to wait for someone to jack the vehicle up. I've been there before. But if the vehicle has no wheels, it will probably be worse than the person just being stuck.

These are the jack stands I use on pickups etc.

http://www.otctools.com/products/3-ton-capacity-ratcheting-jack-stands


http://www.qualitytoolsforless.com/otc-1733a-3-ton-jack-stands-pair/

They are actual OTC, not their Stinger line which is cheap Chinese stuff. If I were to work on a master cylinder, I would leave the wheels on and support the vehicle with the OTC jack stands. Once I was done under the vehicle, I would work on the wheel cylinders one wheel at a time and make sure I never got under the vehicle.

Another opinion.
When I redid my entire brake system on my 49 3100 I had the truck up on jack stands for an extended amount of time as I found much more to do once I had it up and was under it (exhaust system, leaf spring service, new fuel lines, hard & soft brake lines, wireing, etc.).
The truck was up on those jack stands for approx 3 months without an issue of any kind. The wheels were off for most of that time as I found access and moving around under it much easier with them off.
I can't count the times I was under it.
Brake service by it's very nature requires the wheels be off and using ramps will overly complicate your task.
You'll be spinning those wheels to make initial & final adjustments and if you use a one man vacuum bleeder bleeding those wheel cylinders will be much easier with ALL the wheels off at the same time.

I wouldn't recommend anything I haven't done myself. As long as you use equipment thats rated for the task and load you're performing the odd's will be highly in your favor that you'll be successful. Be careful, follow the manufacturers recommendations and use all safety precautions.
I vote for the jack stands.
Dave

I would think the ramps under the wheels would give you more room while doing the majority of work under truck,you could always switch over to the jackstands when it comes time to do that part of the job.

Drive on ramps vs. jack stands. I vote jack stands.

Also, you said it will be there a couple weeks. Jack stands will ensure it stays there, even if somebody inexperienced starts monkeying around with the truck.

Hope that helps and good luck with the brake system components

John

I was a mechanic for more then 35 years. I am still very careful about jacking up vehicles and supporting them before I even consider going under them. A good quality jack stand is the best in my estimation. A light duty jack stand or a cheap one is one thing not to consider. Usually a 5 tone or greater jack stand will provide a good margin of safety for a lighter vehicle or pickup. I like jack stands made by company's like OTC or Walker as an example. Make sure you are comfortable with it before you go under it. I always go around and shake each corner of the vehicle before I go under it. Just my thoughts. Good luck.
Jim

I always stuff the rim and tire under a frame rail when using Jack stands, the 8-10 inches may save your life if a stand fails, or another car backs into the one you are under...

Here's a simple fix for the whole "I'm anticipating having to really work to get the master cylinder off of the truck and am concerned about being under it while it is on the jack stands and pulling hard on a socket wrench." Get the MC loose before even jacking the truck up... there's plenty of room under these trucks with wheels on the ground...

but I agree with the others who say use jack stands to support the truck long term. Thats what I did when doing work under the truck

COMMOM SENSE.....

Watch the surface your on whether using jack stands or ramps. Absolutely NO concrete blocks.

The right tool for the job (ramps or stands)
...maybe a friend to hang out with you while under the truck (he can hand you wrenches)

Even with the best precautions I personally like to keep a jack with just a little pressure, either under the front, back or side just for "insurance"
.....perhaps its because my dad had a IHC pickup fall and crush him breaking 13 ribs. He lived but barely.

My best friend died when his Nova rolled off a pair of ramps while he was changing out a U-joint. I have not had a set of ramps in my shop since.

I use some old screw type jack stands my Dad had and use the same method he used...I leave the jack under it, put the jack stands under it AND some wood blocks for a backup. (the wood blocks are 6x6 about 18" long, I have screwed together some in pairs to make a 12" high, 6" wide, 18"long block)

I've left trucks on the screw type jacks stands and wooden blocks for weeks.

I never figured myself to be an XXL kinda guy, but I don't see how you all fit under your trucks without some lift?!? Anyway, the jury is in as far as jack stands vs ramps. Jack stands are preferred.

I'll give it a try without lift and see if I can manage.... I might have the floor jack handy, just in case I need to get a little help from someone to get out from under.

Sage advice as always Alvin,I actually lost a friend in similar circumstances,a shop buddy/friend is invaluable.
If Brian had someone there he would've survived the crush injuries,what got him was he suffocated,everytime he exhaled he couldn't breath back in due to the weight on him.......

If i'm under mine it's always on 4 3ton jackstands and i'm well within earshot of the house should anything happen.

This is a great safety discussion. However, I don't believe it needs pictures of people doing stupid stuff. If you want to post pictures like that, please do it in Greasy Spoon.

Thanks.

The most important thing to consider in this situation was barely touched: What surface is underneath the truck? Concrete, dirt, gravel, etc.? On concrete I would go with jack stands. On something less even and stable I wouldn't trust them unless I had something level and stable under the jack stand as well.

Personally I've had vehicles on jackstands on a concrete garage floor for months without issue. It's most important to make sure the jack stands are in the proper location, flat on the floor, and securely holding the track.

x2

I always have a jack under it supporting weight when using jack stands.

I always try and rock the truck after I put it on stands. It has to be rock solid before I am satisfied.

x3.....

In the world of jack stands vs. ramps jack stands will win every time in my garage. Here is why.

1. to be safe, you need to use the proper jack stand. One with a locking pin of the ratchet adjuster so that it will not slip.

2. Make sure you place the stand on a sound location on the frame that is FLAT. This ensures that the truck will not shake off the stands.

3. PERFORM A SAFETY INSPECTION PRIOR TO GETTING UNDER THE TRUCK! Usually while I am wrenching some of my kids are playing close by. I make the truck stable enough that the kids can play on the truck while I am working on it.

4. Jack stands take up far less space than the ramps on the floor and working area around the truck.

5. Jack stands will allow you to put the truck higher in the air.

Reading all of the responses was interesting to me, in that it changed my mind on my margins for safety. I have a pair of 3 ton jack stands (ratcheting type). After reading all of the responses, I started to feel like those weren't adequate. So I looked up the weight specs for my truck (1953 3100) and found the following ( 1953 Chevy Truck Specs ). If I'm reading it correctly, the total curb weight of an unloaded truck is 3265 lbs, split between 1845 lbs in the front and 1420 lbs in the rear. Since 1 ton = 2000 lbs, this total truck weight equates to 1.63 tons.

To complicate things, I'm assuming that the rating for the jack stands is for each stand. So for my original 3 ton jack stands, this is less than 100% margin each. So...I bought a pair of 6 ton ratcheting (with locking pin) jack stands. This gives me 368% margin on each stand, when using the total truck weight for calculating. I know each stand does not support the weight of the entire truck, but don't know a way to figure out what load it is actually carrying.

So what I'm thinking...using the 6 ton stands on the front and the 3 ton stands on the rear, until I can replace the 3's with 6's. Sound ok or am I looking at being added to the Darwin list in 2015?

You're all set, now its time to start turning wrenches!

There should be a rating tag on the stand. It should indicate the weight/load limit per stand or per pair. 3 tons per stand would support 12.tons per four (on level ground). 3 tons per pair would support 6 tons - 12,000 lbs.

Either rating would allow safe use with your truck on solid, level ground.

I am not near my shop, so I cannot check the labels on my 3 ton and 6 ton HF stands. I use the 6 ton stands on my 2-ton GMC COE that has a 18 foot flat bed and dual rear wheels.

added later:
HF 3-ton = 6000 lbs evenly distributed over 2 stands (12,000 lbs evenly distributed over 4 stands).

I do a lot of house jacking and floor joist work and I build cribbing under each axle with cut off 6x6 (or 4x4) Its very study and safe. I had a 1 ton Panel cribbed up for almost a year about three feet off the ground...If you have the material its easy. Cheap jack stands scare me..Just a thought

Just found these on U tube. I've never seen anything like these before. They look like they'd be nice to have.


Brian

I'd be afraid of the possibility of the car rolling off, as there are not stops in front of or behind the tires.
Samantha

Agreed.. and the bigger the tire diameter, the scarier it gets. Also limited on tire width too.

Neat concept though, just needs tweeked a bit.

Lot's of folks have tried to skin this cat, there's just no substitute for a vehicle lift....

I hope this helps the conversation, as I have yet to work on my brakes, which will of course require me to remove the each tire/wheel in turn. But for general scooting around under my truck I built these.

Home built ramps

-Pete

Belt and suspenders for me too when it comes to lifting the truck or car. Jack stands + hydraulic Jack and sometimes that plus cribbing. Cribbing being short pieces of 2x4 or 2x6 lumber cross cross stacked tight under the axel or frame. Saw a neighbor barely escape after his heavy chevy slipped off a Jack, when I was a kid. I still get chills thinking about it.

Great topic, but I think in the end whether ramps for stands are used the most important tool of all is COMMON SENSE. If you think there is an issue, there usually is.

When I lift any vehicle, with any device, jack, lift whatever, once I have the vehicle in the air, before I climb under I give it a healthy shake, and think the following to myself: "Can I safely work on this with my kids climbing all over?" If the answer is yes, I get to work.