The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop All over surface rust

I've read the other rust posts and no one seems to have addressed this issue (or I'm missing something. There seems discussion on rusthrough and new panel rust.)

I bought an old farm truck (a '47 International to be exact) which has never seen the inside of a shed or barn. Its from Sask. Canada and so it doesn't have any rust holes or soft spots but the paint has basically warn away leaving an overall rust. I have seen salvage yard cars (especially pre-war cars) in similar condition.
In fact, the hood and fenders now on my '55 sedan were like this. I don't know what kind of prep the body shop did a year ago but obviously it wasn't adequate, since I can notice telltale flaws in the finish that say rust to me. You must realize of course that this lame shop took 6 months to paint my car nearly always storing it outside - even when it rained. {Obviously, I didn't do enough checking)

The question is this... Are these panels worth trying to paint? Is this were the Zero Rust / Por 15 comes into play? Can you sand down to good metal? Is this a sandblast or chemdip arrangement?

abell, great question, I just signed on here yesterday. I have the same problem with the top of my Suburban and also looking for a solution. Hope we can get some good advice. I've been told to get off as much rust as possible then use "Extend" it will turn any rust left in the little pits back into metal.
Buddy in AK

Ah... the dreaded , rust never sleeps , post.
If you can afford the chem dip proceedure , great.
Or try a gentle abrasive like soda blast, cleans really well.
Bottom line is , you've GOT to get ALL the rust first time or it will come back to haunt you!
Just sanding is normally not enough. The metal has to be clean/bright and sanding doesn't get the stuff out of the bottom of the pits. Chemical clean or blasting does.

If you will allow me the opportunity to comment, I will adress Zero Rust's applicability to this situation. Do not take my comments as applyinng to POR 15 as it is a totally different animal.
Zero Rust being a single package direct to metal barrier coat, will put down an impermeable barrier that will starve the 02 from the steel. Assuming you have worked your steel down to good sound tight rust, the rust that is remaining, if it can't breath, it can't grow. The difference here is that primers are typically just a fuzzy coat for paint to stick to and most paints are permeable as well so your basic primer topcoat system does nothing to keep rust that is left behind from continuing to grow.
Allowing ZR to cure out and doing a light scuff, your sandable system could then be applied as we discuss on the web site.
There are many wonderful high tech rust and corrosion control coatings out there that work great as long as you have a white metal blast to coat. Zero Rust protects the marginally prepared surfaces we all see in the real world, especially on old bodies that may be getting thin.
In AK, Hi-Tec Auto Paint has ZR in stock. I'd suggest getting an aerosol can and try it or ask them what their industrial customers have to say about it.
Again, this is ZR's spin on the problem only. Any specific questions email me off line if you'd prefer.
Bruce Palmer
Salem Or
[email protected]

i always sorta do things the hard way--but they work. always use aircraft paint stripper to remove all paint--gotta big wire wheel for the grinder to remove surface rust, and a small brush for the hard to reach places, then hand sand, or use d-a sander to clean metal. work out dents or grind for bondo next--more sanding--then prime. i use industrial primer--lots of zinc-oxide, and does not absorb moisture like lacquer primer. more sanding, then shoot the places where surfaces meet so paint gets everywhere. guys out there are smarter than me--but there are trucks running around i painted 15 yers ago--no rust through.

I might be dumb too, but the roof and fender tops and bed rail tops of my first old truck received hours of sanding with a coarse grade of sandpaper on a DA, in some cases a high speed air grinder with a flex wheel to get the pits out, the metal was plenty thick and pitting wasn't too bad. Got it all shiney and then primered with DP40. Like Kool . . . never had a problem with rust after that.

koolkar, is there any other way?

Iam in the process of redoing a '77 VW Transporter. The roof was completly covered with surface rust. I striped the paint with Kleen strip in the gold can from Home Depot. I tried others this one seemed to work the best. Then sanded it down with a DA sander then agan with 100 grit paper on my Dewalt palm sander. got it nice and shinny. Then I used Zero rust prep step then the zero rust paint once with the red, 220 sanded then with the grey. Filled the holes, dents, dings over the ZR. I have parked it uncovered so far for 2 months in rain, sun, temp change. so far so good no rust. Thats were Iam at now havent decided to epoxy prime it before I paint or not. Hopes this helps.
Dan AKA "mallard"

friend of mine didi his entire el camino with extend after stripping --don't know the results. metal prep, sold in paint supply stores is a good reliable method of checking rust (surface). i know the technonogy has changed, and is changing, but i still will do things the way i have----do NOT want to "experiance" the thrill of working my [censored] off for a year, and have rust start under the paint. i told you i'mnot the smartest guy in the world, so i do things that have proven themselves to work for me. by the way--the operative words are "have worked for me". if you find a better way--by all means ---,and be sure to share info--yes i'm sort of stubborn, but willing to learn

[ 10-21-2001: Message edited by: koolkar ]

I just keep working and keep picking brains til I have enough to fill the void!

[ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: Mechainiac ]

Just my 2 cents on this.
I am presently doing my body and paint work, I have found the product by Restomotive called Metal Ready works pretty good for surface rust removal as well as putting a zink coating on the base metal. It actually bites into the metal, when dry, you rince with water to neutralize it, then follow up with the normal painting process. It's quite something to see, rincing your bare steel off with water and it not flashing rust on you. As stated earlier, the POR-15 rust stopper is definately a different animal
and instructions followed to the letter, but what a tough finish, in my opinion as good as powder coating as far as toughness goes.

This rust problem really stumps me. I've researched lots of products, all with remarkable claims and frankly little or no complaints from users on any of them. I think I'm finally down to what method to use - i.e. a one-step like POR-15, or something that just converts the rust and then put other coatings over. In the end, I'll probably use more than one product/method depending on the condition of part, location and desired finish. Then, after all this thought I go back to my 1941 Chevy. In 1984 I laid underneath the car in the garage and wirebrushed the frame and underbody as much as I could. Then I brushed on Rustoleum primer and covered that with Rustoleum paint. The car saw 130000 miles of heavily salted roads plus some time sitting outside in a fairly humid environment. The problems I've been contemplating with that frame is how to remove all the Rustoleum that's still there! The car body which was treated with a rust converter/inhibitor before painting is rotted to dust in many places, but the frame looks like new except for gobs of Rustoleum. My current project is a truck with no rust through, but plenty of surface rust mixed with good solid, clean metal with original 1940's paint. Comments on how to proceed are welcome!

Has anyone heard of or used Kirker paint products? What brand is best, primer, base,clear?

IMHO, the best approach to effectively and efficiently remove surface rust is to media blast the rust away and then immediately apply a healthy coat of epoxy primer. The epoxy effectively prevents air and moisture from reaching any remaining rust in the pits of the metal and can plastic fillers can be applied directly to the epoxy primer. With this method, you dont have to worry about getting every bit of rust off the metal during the media blasting and as such can avoid damaging the metal.

Similar problems here. This is what I have done so far. The tailgate and steps of box, I used a DA, stripper pad and brass wire wheel on a drill. Worked great except for tight corners. Bought a small Craftsman gravity fed sand blaster. Hit all corners, then all prevously cleaned areas. WARNING- sand gets every where! Blast outside or spend a lot o time cleaning shop!
Then applied Dupli-Color Rust Fix (FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS) After that used Dupli-Color Self Etching Primer. I like the results and have used this process (minus blasting) for minor repair on previous projects. 3-4 years no problems! I am NOT a Pro Auto
Body expert but this works for me.