The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Carter/Webber Help

Amen, moneypit. When I go to dual exhaust I'll split the original manifold. I've been told that the sound and performance is comparable to cast iron headers. Of course looks are another factor...

Hey guys,

This is just what you need:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7969108325&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

hey guys i'm new to this forum so i'm still trying to find where to post but it looks like you guys are having similar problems, i have a bit newer motor, its a 250 in my 78 chevy longbed, but i think its similar, i have an offenhauser manifold w/ a holley four barrel, i got a kit that includes a plate w/ a place to hook up the heater kit on the bottom of the manifold, i set it all up today, mine is a bit newer but it had an extra nipple under the thermostat so i went from there to the manifold out to a T i put in one of the heater hoses, seems like it should work but now my manifold is leaking, not around that part, but in the front and rear of it there are what seems to be 2 plugs?? not sure what they are, round holes in the manifold w/ something pluging it, its leaking out of there, leaking like crazy, anyone familiar w/ these manifolds? thanks

Wow, talk about an off topic topic. I think I'll just back out of here and let you guys duke it out, I ain't got time for this s**t.

why's that so off topic? the guys before were talking about heating their manifolds, they were also talking about different parts they got from Langdon's Stovebolt and they were talking about fixing leaks/ probs w/ the heater set up, the only difference is a different application w/ a different carb on top...

hi blue,

you might want to go back to engine and driveline and click on the "post a new topic" button. You'll attract more people willing and able to help with your probs.

Welcome to Stovebolt!!

bgblue,

Take the time to read the title of the piece and see if you can find anything about heating manifolds in there. Plus, heating manifolds is a figment of Tom Langdon's imagination. The headers, or stock exhaust, and the head provide more heat than the water to the manifold long before the thermostat opens anyway. If you want stock heat, like the factory puts on them because they don't have a clue as to where the units are going, stick with the stock setup and you won't have the hassle of doing it yourself.

thanks belair for your helpful input to a newbie

Sorry guys. My fault. I got us off topic and point big blue here.

Sometimes it's hard to stay on topic when you know the people in the thread might be able to help you.

I'm leaving my SIMPLE 1bbl on. :•D

That's probably the smartest thing anyone has said on this thread.

I like your style, Tab.

Oh yes; the simple one barrel. I remember those days. I could actually take my truck out and enjoy it. I haven't enjoyed this truck since the day I took it off.

Hmmm! Now where did I put that thing?

Does anyone have updates on their carter/webber projects?

shawn

Amen 53 moneypit! I fabricated my own heat plate out of a 4" X 5" piece of 3/8 steel flatbar. The fit issue with the fentons is a real drag but was able to grind mine to fit. I'm in the process of plumbing the heat riser tubes to the heat plate from the headers. I've been speaking with a neighbor of mine who is a skilled mechanic and he suggests finding a butterfly valve with a heatriser spring from an old ford or plymouth. I guess it acts as sort of a coupler between one of the fentons and the exhaust pipe and would force the heat thru the heat riser tubes from the fenton while the motor is warming up, thus adequately warming up the intake. You know, just like the original exhaust manifold does. Anyone have thoughts or experience with this? Or better yet, does anyone know where to get such a valve that will fit?

This past weekend I went to the Stray Cat car show in Dewey, Ok. There was a gentleman there with a 52 1/2 ton. 261,HEI, Fentons,HEI, and dual Cater Webers on an Offy. He had both electric chokes, and vacuums connected. This is his daily driver -- and he likes the set up. I wasn't able to get into timing specs as he had many people talking to him about his ride. This is more of a FYI - do with the info as you like.

Why would he have both vacuums connected... unless he used the other connection for something other than the vacuum advance?

Carter/Webber Update, if anybody is interested. As I stated in my first post I did this swap hoping for some better mileage.....Wrong, but what I didn't expect was also less power, haha, fooled me twice. So anybody considering this carb swap, think long and hard about what you want. What I got was the same mileage and a lot less power, hmmm, I guess the ol' Model B's aren't as bad as we had been told. It's so nice to have a bunch of experts you can count on for good advice.

Well, when I bought the Pertronix conversion for my 68 Corvette, I seem to remember it was sixty-something bucks. With a few years of inflation, I'll bet you can get it for under $75. Check with Summit Racing. I get most of my stuff from there, since there aren't many hotrod shops anymore.

I ordered the 1 to 2bbl conversion plate so that I could hopefully bolt on a nice, straight-forward, easy to tune Holley 2 bbl 350 cfm carb on it. Well, I got a call from Tom Langdon and he did a good job of talking me out of using that Holley. One of the main selling points being the primary/secondary 2bbl of the carbs he sells, and the excellent price he sells them at. Then I pulled up a few pics and said to myself, "Yuck! Looks a lot more complicated than a regular old Holley".
Tom also said the Holley would leak with his adapter. Well, milling out a plate of steel to act as an adapter for the adapter is no big deal, but I am concerned about the driveability of a 350 cfm carb with both barrels opening together.

He wouldn't set them up for high altitude though, and told me they'd run rich. So I'd have to find someone familiar with those carbs to rejet it, or learn to do it myself.

Anyone try the Holley/Webber 270 cfm carb Tom sells? And why did you choose the Carter/Webber instead? Also, how much better does it run throughout the rpm band as compared to the Rochester 1bbl POS?

The Carter/Weber carburetors are quite problematic, even on original applications for which they are calibrated. This was Carter's "price leader" carb for the companies which would not pay for the YF/YFA. Much as I dislike saying anything good about the Rochester B; if I had to make a choice between the two, it would be the Rochester B. It is my understanding that when Carter shifted production to Carter/Weber, the castings were vacuum cast rather than pressure cast, producing a poorer quality casting.

Jon.

Are those Rochesters manual choke and , 2 bbl's ? If so I want one!

Guys,

I am at the decision point. I just purchased the Carter/Webers from Langdon. I haven't mounted them yet...should I stick with the two Rochesters B's and send back the Carter/Webers?

The carter/webers work great!!! Keep the RB's for door stops.

-shawn

Carbking, man I wish you had said that a long time ago. I never thought I'd hear that from you. Like I said, the RB's were working fine just sucking gas, or so I thought. I went to Crusin' the Coast last Oct. in Biloxi, 250 miles one way, and got 16 mpg all the way down. The problem was I got 12 mpg all the way back. The RB's work great when right but I can't get them to hold for more that 300 to 500 miles then it all goes to hell.

I've got two of Langdon's Carter/Webbers waiting to go onto my 261 when I get it back from the machine shop and receive the Offy from Patrick's. Several old truck 'specialists' around the country have argued pretty heavily that I ought to use Rochesters on the offy manifold or 4 bbl Holley on a Clifford's manifold.

This thread has been pretty interesting!

So far it sounds like the problems people are having with the Carter's are with the linkage and adjustments to the idle/choke/mixture. The problem with the Offy/Fenton set up seems to be heat.

The hot water solution from Langdon pulls water from the block before the thermostat opens, so the water should heat up pretty quickly and the electric choke should hold the engine until it does. Then you dumps the water back in to the same place it pulled it out. If you don't use Langdon's heat plate you would pull it out of the thermostat housing on the engine side and then put it into the heater RETURN line, so the heater control valve doesn't have to be open for that water to get back into the waterpump, unless I'm mistaken.

Patrick really favors using exhaust gas to heat the Offy manifold, but it seems to me that would interfer a little with the purpose of the headers, but it might be negligble. Exhaust gas would definately be alot quicker! Fenton made a plate and hose combo for using the exhaust gas and the instruction sheet said the 'pulses' of exhuast (from each cylinder?) would cause the hot gas to circulate.

Just a thought, but some 70s and 80s GM engines had a hose from the exhuast manifold to the aircleaner to suck heated air into the carb before it mixed with gas. Has anyone tried that?

The proponents of the clifford's manifold with 4 bbl holley say its a better set up 'cause you don't ever have to mess with it, which appears to be an advantage over both carter and rochesters. ALso, the Clifford manifold has a built in heat sleeve, so no heat plate to bolt in but you've still got to plumb the water.

Does anyone following this have any experience with the clifford/holley set up?