The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop water leaking from head problem

Its not mine however I am trying to help a Stovebolter from Germany. He bought his truck from Arizona and shipped it back to Germany. He completely rebuilt the 235 in the 1958 truck the truck and engine looks beautiful. Here's the problem he has, upon start up he noticed the head was leaking water. Upon further inspection he found a crack in the head. He purchased another head that was shipped from Florida to Germany. That head was supposed to have been and magnafluxed and inspected. Once again as he applied air to it after the installation was complete he can hear air escaping around the #3 cylinder.

Here is what he wrote me. Jamie, it´s absolutly frustrating.
I don´t get the head impervious
We do everything you discribe except bringing the head up to operating temperature. (I gave him the torque specs and bolt tightening sequence) We first give a little airpressure on the watersystem to see if all is ok but in the area of the 3. zylinder the pressure is gone. I can hear it when i go with the ear a little closer to the head (the head and the block was plan befor assembling)
Is it possible that the head don´t hold the pressure because we don´t warm him up for wile!
Or do you think it´s not so bad when the head don´t hold the pressure? And it´hold the water in the cannels anyhow?
Or we have to use a special copper coat?
For the headgasket we use the Fel-Pro 7619C.

May be it´s better to install a used electric motor of a washmachine and some big batteries so the future can begin! :'( (or the german porsche engine ;-) from my old 1972 targa) (there is no water inside, it´s air cooled)-30-

I am not a professional mechanic however I offered my thoughts but I decided to post here for him because you guys are the experts.

Here is the advice I offered:

1. How much air pressure did you use for your test?

2. The head you bought was it magnafluxed or tested for cracks?

3. Was the head milled/decked (decking is to make sure the mating surface was flat and straight.)?

4. Was the block decked?

5. Did you reuse the head gasket or install a new head gasket?

6. Do you have the proper gasket for your motor and is it facing the proper direction?

Now when I installed mine I cut off the head of 2 bolts to use a guide so the gasket did not shift on the block when I installed the head. Then I put a couple of bolts in to secure the head to the block and removed the starter bolts I made. I then followed the torque procedure.

The water or cooling system is a closed loop so if there is air escaping then so will water. My thoughts are 1 either a cracked block or cracked head, 2 improper head gasket or the gasket has shifted in the installation process or the head or the block does not have a flat or even mating surface.

I would check the mating surfaces first and put the gasket up on the block and check all the holes the do the same to the head make sure all the hole are not blocked or have extra holes. If worse comes to worse recheck the head for a crank or even worse recheck the block. Maybe you just have the wrong or bad gasket.

What else should I tell him to check for? I forgot to ask if the water pump was installed and if the all the hoses were connected.

Need to know what is meant by " he can hear air escaping around the #3 cylinder." Exactly where is the air escaping to?

We are communicating through eMail sometimes has difficulties communicating in English. Here is his reply. I just really do not know what else to tell him. I don't know if he used too much pressure or if the gasket shifted or ?

From what I think he said the pressure went to 0 psi because it did bleed down.

I check all the things you write again so i first will order a headgasket again!
The new head was magnafluxed the seller said, hope it is! Head looks good!
The airpressure was 60-70 psi!
Do you think that is to much?
For the second try with the copperseal we use the old Gasket.
I think the gasket is the proper gasket (Fel-Pro 7619C) and he is facing the proper direktion.

Oh boy, half way across the world, broken English... Do you know anyone who speaks German who he could write to in German and then translate it for you?

He is the only Germany I know and actually I meet him here in Stovebolt.com. When he took a vacation to las vegas he came over and we discussed the inline for a few hours. I wish I could help him out.

My question how much air pressure would you want to use if you were going to pressure the cooling side of the more without doing damage? That would be for My personal knowledge.

60-70 psi in a cooling system that uses a 4-7# rad cap?? I think that's a bit much .... what's with air pressure to test the water passages, and just how's that done with all the holes to plug up?? put it together and pump some water thru, have faith the machine work is good

Bill

When testing cylinder heads for leaks and/or cracks we used 20-25 PSI of air pressure. Chances are the problem is the re-used head gasket. I've also bolted a set of heads onto a bare small block V8, plugged up all the holes, and used a garden hose to pressurize the water jacket. We found a tiny pinhole in a cylinder wall that way.
Jerry

Thanks Hotrod Lincoln. So from what you described the water test you guys did back then would have been similar but not as good as an magnafluxed test by a machine shop if it was performed. If your freeze plugs were good and your head was good it would be a simple test to do.

However I guess if your going to the trouble to rebuilding the motor this would be the reason to do a magnaflux test on the head and block.

Thanks Red I thought it was high but I wasn't sure how much to use.

We were looking for a specific problem, an annoying overheating situation on a round track race engine. We found a tiny pinhole in a cylinder wall near the bottom of the piston travel. When we bored the block to sleeve that cylinder the pinhole turned into a pocket of trapped casting sand that had been barely nicked when we bored the engine .030" oversize and bumped the horsepower to 600+ at 7200 RPM. Chances are it would never have shown up in a standard-bore street engine.
Jerry