The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline Anyone heard of unisteer.com?

I'm getting older, and steering my '48 is getting more difficult. So I'm considering adding power steering. I have a 235. There don't seem to be a lot of options for kits, but http://www.unisteer.com/ has an electric steering kit that might work.

Has anyone heard of them? Anyone ever actually installed one? They seem to focus on later model vehicles, so I'm not sure how well it would work on my '48.

Are you running some type of IFS system? Fitting what is basically an electrically-boosted rack & pinion system to a straight axle is a pretty difficult situation, with a lot of pitfalls to the process.

Some of the OEM electric-steer systems I've seen on warranty claim inspections are under the dash, and basically boost the torque the driver applies to the steering column. It might be simpler to adapt something like that. I don't know if any computer assist is involved, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is- - - -virtually everything has a computer interface these days!
Jerry

An electric power steering unit was featured on a recent "Fantom Works" TV show. I believe they installed it on an Avanti. It looked like it was a little bulky and there may be some fitment issues in an older vehicle. I think they replaced the steering column to accommodate the electric servo motor.

SimS

They use to sell a power steering assist cylinder that fit the straight axle. It was a cylinder that attached to the tie rod and straight axle. Not sure if anyone still carries it or not.

John

My understanding of the electric PS assist is limited to owning two late model vehicles that came with it. A 2006 Chevy Equinox and currently a 2013 Chevy Equinox. Like virtually all late model vehicles they have an R&P set up. I'm not sure it can be used with any other system. I purchased an extended warranty as I have no desire to work on the later vehicles. However I have no problem using drive train components to upgrade older vehicles as applicable.
Fred

Woodswarrior- You've re-listed the same website as the original poster (who is a moderator), included a personal attack, and talked about another grown man's pants...

Are you saying you saw big boy pants installed on TV?

A lot of the readers of these threads (like myself) are really interested in learning about these old trucks, adaptations that work in them, and the experiences of the other members. It's not just on this thread, but the argumentative nature you've been giving as "advice" lately is what leads to threads getting deleted. Apparently, not enough of our members own big boy pants, and everybody always wants to have the last word.

I know you have a lot of experience from what you've posted before & it is helpful, but carrying this pittance any further is not helpful. Right about now in the discussion is where you can switch over to using the PM function.

Thanks

Brad

Woodswarrior, one more post like the two I just deleted, and you will lose access to the site for a while. Your tone and language is completely uncalled for and inexcusable from an adult. If you have any questions about what I mean, feel free to PM me or send me email.

Jerry, right now the steering is stock except for the Ididit column. From what I can tell (the pictures are kind of small), the assist unit connects to the column and then to the steering box.

I think it would be easier to adapt this than to try to install a later model steering box and associated hardware. It's pricey, though, so I had hoped that someone else had already done it or knew of someone who had and could comment on how well it works.

Thanks, Paul! I didn't research that site far enough to find the column-assist units. It looked like all they were offering was a variety of R&P units, and there are some really problematic issues with the sliding coupling between the steering column and the steering gear when a rack is mounted to move with the axle, and even worse problems with bump steer when the rack is mounted to the body. The column-assist units I've encountered on production vehicles are pretty effective, but some of the failures I've seen on warranty claims were on fairly low-mileage vehicles. You'll need a heavy duty alternator to handle the current draw of an electric-boost steering system, I believe. It might be worth researching whether a salvage yard unit could be adapted, rather than letting someone else make a big profit on a system that might require a lot of adapting for your application.
Jerry

Thanks, Jerry! I wasn't aware there were units like that in salvage yards. Do you have any idea what years/models might have used it? I would imagine adapting one would be as doable as buying the expensive aftermarket one.

At least one of the late model Chevy compact cars runs electric assist, and a couple of imports. You'd need to look for a very late-model total loss wreck, preferably with rear body damage. It would require a little research to see if one of those units might fit and function in your application. The sticking point would probably be whether or not a computer interface is required. Electric steering assist is the latest fad to avoid putting extra strain on some of the really small engines by driving a hydraulic steering pump in the subcompact cars.
Jerry

Do you think those would be powerful enough for my truck steering? I've been doing some googling, and I see that there's a smattering of cars back in 2004-8 that used it, including the Malibu.

Like my friend said when I questioned his choice of carrying a .32 Automatic as a self-defense firearm, "Anything beats a scream!" Any power assist at all is going to be better than nothing, and if it's rugged enough for a Malibu, it's not likely to be overstressed in your application. The only other power assist I can think of that might work in your situation would be the hydraulic cylinder that is attached between the drag link and the frame, and senses input from the Pitman arm to select the boost direction. Ford Granada in the 1970's and the corresponding mid-size Mercury cars ran that system. We ran a very large version of that type of steering on White Freightliners back in the mid-1970's.
Jerry

http://www.brotherstrucks.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PSC4759

Maybe? I have always wondered about it. Not sure if anyone here has done this.

I put one of those kits on a 1950 about 10 years ago and it is the last one I would ever do.
If you mount the box at the angle they recommend, the drag link end, the one that attaches to the steering arm, was at such an angle that I feared it would snap if the truck was put in any angled position where the axle would drop or raise on one side.
I mounted the box on this truck much more level than the instructions and that made it better, but not much. This truck also ended up with much to sensitive steering. I had to mess with pump relief valve to lower the pressure. What a pain.
I would never use this kit again on any customers truck simply for the liability issue of this bad design.

Dave, I've been tinkering with an idea to use one of those Saginaw power boxes in a slightly different arrangement, rotated 90 degrees so the Pitman arm hangs down beside the frame similar to the OEM stovebolt box. I'm nowhere near making a prototype, but I believe it would be possible to come up with something that closely resembles the existing linkage geometry instead of what's being offered now.
Jerry

Someone(Jerry)needs to come up with a better power steering setup for these trucks. I get so many requests for PS.

$950, delivered

I think I would prefer the electric assist. I've dealt with two many leaky, noisy PS pumps over the years. Plus hydraulic steering steals power from the motor, which reduces the fuel mileage, a serious consideration these days. Also the electric assist takes up much less room in the engine compartment.

Maybe somebody should figure out how to adapt a stock electric assist system to these old trucks. You could sell two kits. One with the parts to adapt a junk yard find. Another with a brand new motor. From what I've read, some of the motors have been cheaply built and have not held up. Finding a good solid motor to go with the kit would make it easier to provide a guarantee.

Good grief- - - -somebody stole my idea! I was planning to mount the box ahead of the axle, though, to eliminate exhaust clearance problems.

Jerry

I've often wondered why you couldn't turn a regular power steering gear on its side with the pittman shaft sticking out rather than down.

Biggest draw back would be having to make the mounting bracket.

Hydraulic fluid doesn't care which direction it flows, and the Pitman arm can be clocked to any spline position by taking a 3-cornered file to the four "wide" splines on the inside diameter of the big end. That will allow the Pitman to assume the right position no matter what the angle of the worm gear shaft is. We used to use that sneaky little trick when repositioning the steering gear on some of the dirt track race cars we built.
Jerry

Several years ago I had a 57 BelAir with factory power steering. Has anyone tried adapting that system to one of these trucks? The generator and power steering pump were one unit mounted in tandem with the same shaft running through both so that one pulley handled everything. The other end was a hydraulic piston mounted to the tie rod. I don't remember how any of the other plumbing was mounted, but I'm sure there were some directional flow valves in there somewhere. I drove the car quite a bit and it seemed to work pretty well. Not sure what other years or models used that set up.

That one is similar to the Ford setup I mentioned. It uses a frame-mounted boost cylinder attached to the relay rod and a direction-sensing hydraulic switching valve attached to the Pitman arm, plus a whole bunch of flexible hoses that are prone to leakage and/or getting snagged on road debris. It was a pretty lousy system 50 years ago, and it hasn't improved with age. The generator-mounted hydraulic pump was also problematic. Some of us who remember the 57 models when they were new don't share the nostalgia about them that some of the younger generations seem to have.
Jerry

That system was offered on GM trucks from 55 through 66. Although they used a conventional PS pump in the later trucks. One of the main drawbacks in addition to those Jerry mentioned is that it used the stock steering box. Any wear in the steering box or other components made for horrible steering. There is an aftermarket kit that Brothers and other suppliers sold for several years. I had one and I wouldn't recommend it.
Fred

Mount a bigger steering wheel on the truck, that'll give you more leverage.

John

A lot of us would need to lose several inches around the middle, or the belly flab drag would make it harder to turn the bigger wheel, not easier!

Jerry

Haven't you ever heard of a "fat man" steering wheel where they cut the bottom off the steering wheel.

I've always been surprised at how easy the AD trucks steer. Compared to my '56 Pontiac which is a bear to turn when sitting still.

John

Thanks a lot John. You have just provided a solution to my ever-expanding girth problem, eliminating the only motivating factor which I have left to get back into shape.
"I am sad because I eat too much, and I eat too much because I am sad." -Fatbastard-

Hi, baldeagle, I looked at pictures of your truck and it has a very wide tread on it. Find a set of front tires that are 1/2 the width of the ones that you have now, it will make the steering a lot easier. When I picked up my truck from Dad, it had tires that had at least 8-9" of tread width, at a stop even on gravel you could not turn the steering wheel and make the wheels turn at a stop. After I got it home, I put on some 6.50 x 16 tires on it and it was like I had added power steering. Have fun, Brian

Already did that when I built the truck.

I don't want to do that. The truck has the look I want, which I don't want to change.

I kind of skimmed through this thread, saw the mention of the electric assist power steering found on modern cars. I personally have a love/hate relationship with them. On one hand, they do work very well, and are very easy to service should there be a need to replace the rack itself (no hydraulic lines to deal with, no need to bleed it after replacement). On the other hand, almost every single one I've dealt with is also tied into some sort of Vehicle Stability Management System, which also ties into the ABS as well. That can be a pain to get set right after aligning a vehicle, as there is a sensor in the steering column that needs reset. The sensor gauges how far the wheel is turned from center, not only telling the control module how far the vehicle is being turned, it also tell the assist system that it needs to kick in. While most of the time, this isn't an issue, if the sensor isn't reset after resetting the front toe, it can read the wheel as being "off center", even though it really isn't. What that will do is cause the power assist to kick in to attempt to "straighten" the car, as it gets a confused reading from comparing an "off center" or "turning" reading from the steering wheel, but getting a "going straight" reading from the ABS sensors at the wheels. As long as the sensor gets set correctly after a toe set, they system works fine.
On another note, I noticed a mention of it being primarily on smaller cars. The electric assist steering has been popping up on GM FWD full size cars recently (Impala), and for '15, it's going start seeing use in at least the 1/2 ton pickups and SUVs. I suppose it could be adapted to older vehicles, though it would require a stand alone control, and perhaps a
dumbed down" version of the steering angle sensor without the VSC system.

Since the unisteer system is aftermarket, it doesn't suffer from the integration of ABS and other stuff. Not sure about the adjustments though. That's why I was hoping someone would have BTDT.

I understand that some Chevy trucks had a system called ram assist steering. Does anyone know anything about that?

OEM ram assist steering. I believe Fred pretty much covered this system. A similar system was also used on Corvettes up to the '82s.

My Mrs' 06 Toyota Rav4 has EPS, electric power steering and although she drives it a lot more than I, I really don't notice any difference between it and the std hydraulic PS of my F150.
The actual electric assist module is mounted to the steering shaft behind the dash and seems to be quite compact. It is inter-connected to the ECM and VSC (traction drive control) so I'm unsure if it would work standalone in a Stovebolt application. Course I'm unsure if it would fit behind the dash as there's some dash bracing that appears could get in the way.
But in functionality, the EPS has worked great in my Mrs' car for 8 yrs now....

And yep, I'm interested in some power assist for my 49 too. I've still got an inch or so of steering wheel clearance before a smaller steering wheel will have to be installed as the drag will definitely make steering harder
Dave

In my poking around, I found that 4 wheelers are constantly looking for power assist for their steering. Apparently the really wide mud tires they use are hard to steer when they are rock climbing and the tire gets into a tight spot between rocks. Rather than replace their entire steering system, they use aftermarket ram assist systems to do the job. I found one system (sans pump and pulley) for $245. So for about $500 or so I might be able to rig something up.

Over the past 60 years or so, steering assist systems have been built with hydraulic, electric, air, and even vacuum as a power source. Hydraulic systems have been the odds-on favorite since it's fairly simple to run a belt-driven pump and valve the boost pressure to either end of a cylinder to make the driver's turning effort less. The main gripe has been the amount of power that gets robbed from small-displacement engines. The self-contained power system incorporated into a steering gear such as the GM Saginaw unit has become the method of choice for most manufacturers. It has a spool valve that directs pressure to either end of an internal piston, all contained inside a fairly compact unit that's not prone to leakage or failure for 100K miles or more. I believe there are much better ways to adapt that type of system to a stovebolt straight axle than what's currently available. The ram-assist style power system is much more prone to leakage and/or damage to hoses. For a hobby-type vehicle that doesn't get a lot of mileage, wear is sort of a moot point compared to a daily driver. Some of the air-assist systems I've worked on for over the road trucks are really interesting!
Jerry

Here's my issue. I'm looking for a solution that involves the least amount of jury rigging and maintenance effort. Ram-assist seems like a way to accomplish that. Electric eliminates the messiness of hydraulic fluid. So that's what I'm leaning toward, although I still have a lot of investigating to do. Mileage and wear and not as big a consideration as seals drying up due to lack of use.

Once I'm retired, in February, I may drive the truck more, which could obviate those concerns to some degree.

Just saw this one mentioned on Power Nation TV.

http://americanpowertrain.com/i-8580036-ez-electric-power-steering-for-street-rod-and-customs.html

custom made just for your application. Looks interesting.