The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Do block stamp numbers always match partial body VIN numbers?

1956 Task Force 3100. Looking to verify "matching numbers" on block stamping and VIN number on truck.
Should partial numbers "match" or did they do this in 1956?
Nothing in my VIN or Block stamp "match" except the numbers "56".

no, there is NO "matching numbers" on any of these old trucks, that's a muscle car thing - the '56' means it's a 1956 - see your other post on the subject

Bill

the whole story originally had a Buick straight 8 and Chev non-syncro 4 speed, the Detroit's weren't used until mid-50's, now a 454 and 4L80 .... needs air brakes overhauled when I get some money

Bill

I know Bill says there are no matching numbers on any of these old trucks, but I have to respectfully disagree. My 53 Chev 5100 COE has numbers stamped into the pad at the dizzy and that number is the exact same as the VIN on the title. Am I missing something?

yes you're missing that the engine ID number was used on titles back in the day as the vin [not "VIN" in todays sense], not related to the overall vehicle, which has a separate ID number [manufacturers serial number] of a completely different format and a different sequence number from the one on the engine, if the engine had been changed the title should have been changed too, "matching numbers" for the vehicle hobby is a whole different thing where all components have numbers and dates that relate to the particular build of that particular vehicle and match the actual VIN on the door [or windshield] plate

Bill

OK , we'll just disagree. Cordially, of course. Because the engine has not been changed , nor has the title, so. Therefore they still match. I think the statement you made, that being "there is no matching numbers on any of these old trucks"is not true. If you want to stand by it, fine.

Geo

no, you're not understanding, you're just saying you have a valid title for that truck because it has the engine number on it that's shown on the title, the engine number matching the title is meaningless - when folks talk about "numbers matching" they're talking about the engine number matching the manufacturers actual vehicle VIN, which was the VIN on the title by muscle car time when "matching numbers" became important, not the engine number .... the numbers stamped on your engine are NOT the same numbers as on your door tag, which is what "matching numbers" would mean, there is no list of numbers on your truck that are "matching", every part that has a number has it's own sequence number .... and I not only stand by it, I'll suggest that you'll have a real hard time finding anyone else to disagree

and I should point out the original question: "Do block stamp numbers always match partial body VIN numbers" the simple answer is ... no, never

Bill

OK you win. I understand. Still don't agree completely, but I understand. I'm stubborn. I'll give you that but I don't want everybody to think I'm stupid. The numbers on my block match the numbers on my title. They do not match the ID plate on the door. I get it. I hope whoever asked the question originally is happy. If you ever get to Phoenix, give me a holler. I'll give you a ride in my "numbers matching" truck.

Geo

I have a 56 Chevy 3100. From my understanding is there is no matching numbers in those trucks. I guess the buzz word that i was schooled is "period correct". My truck, I bought it is from the person who bought new. They only changed the parts that require routine maintenance. It has the original engine, transmission, & rear end when I bought it then sat in a field for 20 years.

Utah & Nevada do not use the engine as title number. Nevada when I had it inspected looked for the number on the frame which is stamped in two places. It does some what match the v.i.n. plate on the drivers side door jam. The motor does not match.

To sum it up for me "matching numbers" is a muscle car thing and "period correct" is how to tell what trucks came with. I was schooled if the date code on the components were within about a period of 3 months of manufacturing off the assembly line it's probably the original.

I do agree you should not stamp anything anywhere where it could confuse the DMV. It could cause a problem when registering because not all States have the same requirement. Just my .02

yes Jamie, it's not GM documented but starting with the 55 2nd series, the vehicle body 'vin' was stamped on the frame as a theft detector, the 'non-matching' part is that the initial series designator was left off, for yours that would be the '3A', the rest, year, plant, and unit sequence number will "match"

George, watch out, I may be able to take you up on that ride some day, I grew up in the Valley of the Sun and still have relatives thereabouts

Bill

I'll be here. Couple more weeks and it'll feel like we lived thru another summer..

Hi! I don't wish to disagree by any means, but I have always thought the numbers on my truck matched: the number stamped on the block next to the distributor are also stamped on the door. Mind you this is a Canadian truck and it is a GMC so perhaps they did things different. Or maybe I'm missing something.

Pics are available here:

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p195/BassBucket/52%20GMC/20140815_193742.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p195/BassBucket/52%20GMC/20140815_193820.jpg

The tag on your truck lists both the chassis number and the engine number, so while the engine numbers do match (which they should), the engine number and chassis numbers do not (which is also normal). I don't know about US GMC trucks, but US built Chevrolets do not have the engine number on the chassis/body serial number plate, only the chassis/body number.

still not what's referred to as "matching numbers" Stove, the fact that the engine number on the firewall tag [only a CDN thing] is the same as what's actually on the engine, just means it still has the original engine, or at least the engine goes with the tag, the engine number still does not match the vehicle unit number or the body serial number, 3 different numbers, with no matches among them, and none of those numbers appear anywhere else on the truck .... all that tag tells you is the engine in the truck is the one on the tag, both the engine and tag may have been 'transplanted' from another truck, which is what the "numbers matching" game is meant to avoid because with a "true" numbers matching vehicle all components have numbers matching the vehicle ID number ['vin'] .... so yes, like George, you can be sure you have the engine that was factory installed in that truck, but it is not what's called a "numbers matching" vehicle - to the original question again, "Do block stamp numbers always match partial body VIN numbers - no, never

the whole numbers matching meme is about the very high dollar muscle car era vehicles that came with lots of spendy factory "upgrades", particularly hot engine components, all those items are number matched from the factory, and folks spending the big bucks want to know that the vehicle is 100% original as built, a meaningless exercise with old work trucks, our engine numbers can tell you it's size, and sometimes what sort of trans was used with it and what series truck it was originally in, when the engine was assembled needs to be guessed by casting date codes, and they were never assembled for a particular truck

Bill

Thanks gentlemen, this is beginning to make sense.

To me the "Numbers Matching" statement when used around our trucks just means you still have all the major pieces the truck was born with, knowing full well none of the numbers actually match.

The closest "numbers matching" I've seen with our trucks would be Stove's Canadian GMC where the Chassis and Engine numbers are stamped on a common plate and the engine still matches that tag. That's pretty hard proof that that engine was born in that truck..."Numbers Match"!

Mike B

As posted above, if you have a title with the engine code AND the vehicle code (or a sales slip with BOTH of those codes), you could demonstrate that you have a "numbers matching" truck. However, most titles and all registrations have only one of these codes on them.

The only other exactly matching numbers might be the engine code for a Hydra-Matic equipped truck - that engine code is stamped onto a plate that is attached to the Hydra-Matic transmission. But, the vehicle serial number does not designate that the truck has the Hydra-Matic option.

Otherwise, before 1957 your "matching numbers" would be having the same years on the engine serial number year and the vehicle serial number year; and, one of those codes on the title and/or registration.

From 1957 onwards, you could have a numbers logically-matching truck if your vehicle serial number year-code (and series code) is the same as the engine casting-date year-code (and series code). This is tricky at the end of a calendar year, when the engine was cast at the end of the last year and the truck assembled early in the next year.

This is confusing and is fraught with inconsistencies.

How about if I muddy up the water a little? We all know how easy it is to change the door plates or firewall plates on our old trucks. Parts suppliers even offer blank plates to make it all look pretty. Number stamps are easy to find at any tool store. So, my point is how do you know the plate or for that matter the numbers stamped on the dissy boss are really the ones stamped at the factory? Just throwing that in the mix.

most of these old motors have been rebuilt at one time or another usually by a machine shop a large one. back before the 80's like sun motors in tulsa they used to redo 100 motors or more a day at one time. they did not worry about the #on the engine being the one you turned in other than the casting # & the code on the block identifying what size it was and the casting #on the head. when i had them re-do my 235 in 1977 the motor i got back was not the same one. i wrote the #'s down before i dropped it off.they had their own tag on it. just like a head re-man shop or trans re-man shop. a friend of mine does automatic transmissions and he has lots of cores lying around if one needs welding he just installs one he has already on the shelf now if you want yours back in there you better tell him up ft or he will install one already to go in 1 day that is how they do it all the time. when i ported a lot of cylinder heads on harley's you got yours back. on racing heads they always got the ones back they are of a certain design and chamber size and so on. i had core heads on the shelf all the time ready to go of different types of the porting that i offered.i also charged a core charge if you just wanted to by a set of ported heads i had done but wanted to keep your original heads or had damaged your heads to bad. a lot of people used to do it all the time.even though they say those heads are seasoned to those cylinders and so on once i milled em to clean the gasket surface or adjust compression they just bolt back on but are seasoned heads because of the heat cycles not just because they came on that motor it really makes no difference other than personal preference. on muscle cars like roadrunner's,corvette's,firebird's,camaro's,charger's etc it does make a big differernce at auction's and personal collectors type of situations.harley's now have #'s on six different parts even the lower triple clamp on the ft end of the bike. they get stolen alot.

Martin,

You cannot be sure, unless the reproduction Chevrolet truck ID plates are the ones commonly available. Those have a "box" for the code that is not as tall as the code-box on the original plates.

The reproduction GMC ID plates are a very good match to the original.

The other "give away" regarding after-market ID plates would be if the fake plates are installed with fake/wrong attachment hardware.

- unique style of clutch-head screws for 1950 and earlier
- special front-installable rivets (these are aluminum reproduction rivets).