The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Pitted Lifters

Started the tear down of the 235 in the 54- backtracking:

Engine started and ran but had been sitting for quite some time before the P.O. got a hold of the truck and flipped it to me. I replaced the brakes, fuel system and brakes complete. engine started and ran fine ( better than I though) but in doing my initial series of checks for the motor I found I had water in the oil ( here we go again) compression tested the motor before I pulled the head and #2 only had 30# (all others around 120#) so off came the head... The gasket was in good shape no visible breech and no visible cracks in hte head- but the exhaust valve on #2 was "sticky" so I'm taking to the machine shop to be cleaned, magna fluxed, and reassembled. we'll put a new head gasket in and hopefully take care of the water in the oil issue. in puling everything apart- I noted 5 and 6's lifters are pitted- cam appears to be ok. I would rather not replace the lifters if I didn't have to but I also don't want to run with the pitted lifters if it wall cause more damage- Can I just replace the 4 pitted lifters with new? or do I replace all of them? not interested in messing with cam if I don't have to (replace cam and all 12 lifters)

Pitting on the lifters and water in the oil. Was the engine exposed? You might have had some water from sitting. The lifters and the cam are not going to get any better. Rust is a very good abraisive, not what you want in the bearings and piston skirts. I would pull it apart, clean, clean and clean. It might be OK but I would not run it until it is clean

I do believe the truck sat for quite some time before it ended up in my garage- the engine is as apart is it is going to get and I'm in the process of cleaning now- While the head is out getting cleaned/ inspected/ re-assembled

What do the cam lobes that mate with the pitted lifters look like? If you choose to replace only the damaged lifters, you'll need to do the same sort of break-in run that a new cam and lifter assembly gets- - - -20-30 minutes at 2,000 RPM before idling the engine to allow a new contact pattern to develop between the lobes and the lifters, and hope the cam lobe doesn't go away. How about the contour of the bottoms of the other lifters? The bottom should be slightly convex, so a straightedge rolls over it from side to side, not flat or concave. If the lifters are flat or concave, the cam is worn out also.
Jerry

If the other lifters look good, just replace the bad ones.

I never would have even started the engine if the guy hadn't told me it was running well and driving- looks like he replaced, cap rotor, wires, plugs, and had worked on the carb- ( it was clean with some gasket material oozing out) he sent a video of the truck running for a minute or so- In any case I'm going to get it as clean as I can internally- just not so sure on the lifters- I can just replace the pitted ones but in my search of the subject it seems like some guys discourage that because it ( new lifter) can damage the cam- Any thoughts on that?

Those lifters are pitted pretty bad. They'll ruin the cam lobes is used. If your others aren't pitted, scratched,cracked or showing any other damage you can reuse them but definitely replace those 4. How does the corresponding cam lobes look?
Lifters are somewhat easy to replace in truck but the cam ain't.

I like the shade of blue your using on your engine, what brand/color is it?

Dave

Lifters look to be flat- but I'll check when I get back home- we are talking thousandths convex right?

Thanks Volfandt- It is "GM Corporate Blue" engine paint from Eastwood- its a bit lighter than I was hoping- but their Chevy 6 cyl Blue is too dark - (we used the chevy 6 cyl blue on my sons 64)

I use their 2 part engine paint on my brake backing plates and drums - I like it and it really holds up well. I brushed the engine paint on this time- and I sprayed the oil pan, valve cover and a couple other tins last night- I prefer spraying but I gotta say I don't mind how the brush job turned out either just takes more time and a couple more coats to get it solid.


The cam lobes look good at first blush but I'll take a closer look tonight

I use a 6" machinist's scale or some other type of precision-ground straightedge and place it across the bottom of the lifter, then hold it up to a bright light. If I can see daylight in the middle the lifter is definitely worn out. You should be able to rock the straightedge from side to side a little on a good lifter. This allows the lifter to spin as the cam lobe takes up the slack from the clearance and equalizes the wear pattern. A flat or concave lifter doesn't spin, and it wears quickly.
Jerry

Thanks Hotrod Lincoln- I'll do that check tonight-

I'll order replacements for the pitted lifters and run the breakthrough procedure when I get the motor back together.

I'm hoping the turnaround time on the head isn't too bad. dropping it off tomorrow

Ok. Checked the lifters- a few are slightly dished. I just ordered all new lifters- I'll just have to be careful to break them in and keep fingers crossed I don't screw up the cam in the process. Cam looked good, no galling or scratches. Taking the head in tomorrow so I've got time before the whole thing gets reassembled.

Looks like the lifters I'm getting have a hole in the body. Mine are solid. I don't believe that will be an issue. Thanks for all the input!

See if you can come up with a container of cam break-in lube from somewhere like Comp Cams or one of the other cam grinders. A package of the stuff is included with a new cam, but I believe it can be purchased separately. Coat the bottoms of the lifters and the cam liberally before your break-in run. A little ZDDP oil additive is a good idea during the break-in, also.
Jerry

Will do. Is there an issue with briefly running to get things set / adjusted before I do the 2,000 rpm 20 minute break in run? Or am I doing all I can set-up wise before I start it- then start it and run the break in during the initial start up?

Just looking for advice- I am far from an expert when it comes to engine work.

I've done my far share of my own work on vehicles and was looking to the community here for some advice re:my lifters and their condition I did not expect to see the pitting I saw and reached out for some advice- I searched the topic and came back with alot of conflicting advice- so I asked the question in a new string.

Maybe it was wishful thinking: thinking that the tappets and the cam were going to be ok as is, or that I can drop new lifters in and have them work with the old cam- I'll give you that, I am a wishful thinker in that regard...

Yes- yanking the cam and having it reground / polished as well as new lifters to go with the rebuilt head would be preferred, and as long as we are at it I should tear down the engine and have it sent to the machine shop, have it checked over, align bored, honed, and throw in new bearings, a set of new pistons and rings as well maybe? If I had my druthers that is exactly what I would do with all the engines I have/had in any given project- There is nothing wrong with any of that-

I appreciate your response to this thread very much, 34 3600, as well as all the others that have posted. This is a great community with a very diverse group of people that always seem to be there for you.

Everybody's situation is not the same- what one person can do in their shop or garage cannot always be done by another due to (fill in the blank with circumstance)- Some don't have the room, some don't have the money, some don't have the time, some have a HOA breathing down their neck, some have other hobbies, interest, and families to raise. A lot of us have multiple issues that effect our hobby. (that's where the "what so hard about doing that" gets answered)

The one common thread among us all is the admiration for these old trucks. Whether we own a clunker or a trailer queen, turn a wrench, or pay others to do it for us- we all share the affinity for our vehicles.

I'll take all the advice I get from my fellow 'bolters and ultimately do what I can to do to accommodate my time-frame /budget/ circumstances. I'll post my progress as I go- and ask questions where I need to. Thanks to all for your support and assistance.

It is a good point that circumstances vary for everyone. You requested opinions and they were given.
Did you keep track of the lifters so you know which cam lobe they are associated with? In my opinion I would just replace the 4 pitted lifters if your going to use the same camshaft. As long as the other lifters can be put back on the same lobe they wore into you only have a 4 out of 12 chance of eating up the cam with different lifters. When things change and you decide to do a complete rebuild then you can replace all the lifters along with either a replacement cam or having yours reground.

I have the lifters in the order they were removed- so they will go back where they came from. Same with the pushrods. They are oiled and back in the motor for now. I need to have my garage packed back up at the end of every "shift" I work. Won't touch the truck again till next weekend if I can swing it.

There are several ways to accomplish what you want to do, most of them depending on budget considerations, shop facilities available, and how long you want the engine to be reliable. Every situation is different, and there's no "one size fits all" solution.

Best-case scenario- - - -new cam and lifters, combined with a total engine overhaul, new pistons, cylinder head rebuilt, etc. Big bucks and lots of downtime.

Next option- - - -replace all the lifters, do a break-in run, and hope the camshaft survives to establish a new running relationship with the new parts. Possible, but a little risky, less expensive, and it might get you a considerable amount of lifespan before an overhaul becomes necessary.

Replace the damaged lifters and do a run-in to mate them to the cam- - - -if the lobes with the damaged lifters aren't badly pitted or worn, about the same lifespan as replacing all the lifters, less expense.

Reassemble "as is" pitted lifters and all. Hope for the best. Least expensive, also least likely to succeed.

Pick from the above options, pay your money and take your chances. There's no need to get rude or condescending when offering advice- - - -internet comments are worth exactly what it costs to read them!
Jerry

Jerry,

If I sounded rude or condescending in the least I apologize. It was not my intent. If you meant that for somebody else- thank you, and I agree!

You've been very up front and sincere with your questions, and most of us have tried to respond accordingly. You'll find the vast majority of stovebolters to be that way. There's just a few folks who want to stroke their own ego by talking down to a newbie, so ignore that group and hang in there with the rest of us!
Jerry

I'm hangin!

Thank you.

That is a a great answer and is very helpful- thank you ! The head is over at Micron engines in Stone Park IL-The first thing he did when I brought the head in was to recommend that I check out Stovebolt- Mike mentioned he has done work on a few Stovebolters engines- Micronengines.com

FINALLY got my head back from the machine shop yesterday... it looks brand new ( I guess it should)

- I'm hoping to have time to get it in the truck this weekend-

repaired crack ( I'll post pics in the next few days)
new exhaust valve seats
new valve guides
new intake and exhaust valves
decked the head ( it was out .005)
new springs/ retainers