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Anyone know where one could locate a small portion of a patch panel? Or a complete drivers cowl that has the side vent integrated? My truck has the vertical door over-extension crease. I removed a patch panel from a donor cab that has a slight crease but not perfect. Both panels had extensive rot at the bottom.

Initially I thought about just patching in a rough patch with metal and then filling it up with kitty hair. I do not feel that I have the necessary expertise to form the lower piece by hand. I also hate to spend $60 on a patch panel to use the lower 4". Or have to cut the panel to accept the drivers door vent.

So I'm stuck. Any of you guys ever been in this predicament? I'm open to suggestions.

You using the one with the flip-out vent?
.....and do you have shrinker-stretchers?

Lot's of small patch panels in an old hood... Cut, bend, fold and integrate.

I used the bottom 1/2 of my cab corner patch panels as intended and used the top as patches for the lower rear patch on my front fenders. Read through MP&C's posts and be adventurous with the dot welding tech. It's well worth the time to 'learn' and practice forming the patch. I've seen one guy use an assortment of round river rocks as hammer/dolly tools.

Yes, Robert's threads are what have "inspired" me to rethink my intended process. And Robert, yes, the truck has the flip out vent (1949) and the patch panel (1948) has the flip out vent as well. The vent frame on the original panel was kinked enough to render it unusable (at least with having a suitable replacement on hand).

I have some body hammers, a few dollies, some scrap pipe, a vise, and an anvil.

Why do I get the feeling I will be building this piece myself from some "old metal" from the old cab.

The bottom of that cowl appears to be what we refer to as a "hat" section. Looking at a cross section view, you have a flange, then go up, across, down, then the other flange. Looks somewhat like a flat hat...

The problem you will face in doing this in one piece is that the sides will need to be shrunk to add the radius to match the panel on the truck, and the flanges will also need to be shrunk adjacent to those same shrinks. Or make it in more manageable pieces and weld it together. Or pony up the 60 and use what you need from the store bought version. This will boil down to one of those what is your time worth things.. If you had to buy shrinker-stretchers, you'd spend much more than the 60, if you have someone nearby that you could borrow them from, you're ahead of the game, or you could make your own tooling, as shown here:

Here is a thread that describes making a windshield opening corner, much similar to the one in your truck. The tucks shown help to keep the bulk of the panel flat, and the "flange" for each piece has a radius that is welded/joined in the middle. What you are attempting is going to use shrinking of the sides to introduce a radius, and keep the sides (of the hat) flat. So it's similar but a different orientation, if you will.


http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3511705&postcount=401


If you want to sacrifice a pair of vise grips, this will show you how to make tuck shrinking pliers that will be more consistent...


http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1024584&postcount=101

I wish I had an anvil...

This is a generalized comment because I don't know what this piece is or where it goes, but IF I could by a piece that replaces the area for $60, I would never screw around with all that shrinking, hammering on rocks, bending, anviling, stretching, bending stuff. I would feel plenty lucky it was available and would be the EXACT shape I needed. Especially if I was not adept at forming/shaping and did not have the tools.. The unused part of it can be used for a piece that is not available. In my experience, this is how people get bogged down and take 5 years to complete a project. While having fun making a sheet metal part they forget that a year later they will wonder why none of the other stuff is done. If this area can be seen and is painted along with the rest of the truck, it's a no brainer to buy the patch. It will be work enough to cut, fit, weld, grind, sand, fill and paint even a store bought patch. I have made and welded in patches that were not available, they were fairly simple types. I have "fabed" many mechanical parts. I do not have many tools or the expertise for complicated pieces like curved outside body parts. I see Robert is an expert and even he understands there is an opposite view in this case. Shows he is a true common sense professional fabricator.

Here is the damaged piece:
http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/...Restoration/Cab/IMG_4253_zpsc32f5e14.jpg

Here is the proposed replacement from a 1948:
http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/...ion/Parts%20Cab/IMG_3434_zps9b32bab4.jpg

The lower turn where the rot is will have to be repaired.

Bartamos - Truly, I get the time v. price aspect. My thinking is that none of the patch vendors sell the panel with the door for the vent. They all simply have a smooth panel. Which leaves me to either remove the vent door altogether or cut out and patch in that portion from my parts. The lower portion of the truck would be more forgiving if not 100% perfect as it will be out of the direct line of sight and somewhat obscured by the fender and running board. While patching in the vent door frame will be right there in line with the door handle and very obvious if any little thing goes wrong.

CASO - This anvil is a family heirloom. It was my great-grandpa's.

I guess part of this is learning something new, getting out of my comfort zone, and expanding my experience. At the same time, not getting out on a limb, doing it wrong, causing irreparable damage and costing more time and money. Its my own project, so time is cheap. I get about an hour a night at best, so 5 year turnaround will be considered a win!

Can you point out the actual damage? Specifically? Remember a very important thing. As I try to understand what is damaged, DO NOT replace any more than is actually damaged. Just cut out the damage and replace with as small of a patch as makes welding/fitting sense. It does look like you have a donor pieces that will work just fine, if I new what you were trying to fix? I don't see big dents or any rust? Can't see how bad the over extension crease is?
Silly question from someone who does not see it yet but if your damage is around the vent opening, can you not just hammer and dolly the area and the existing flange for the door and just use the donor door and hinge? Sorry but I am getting slow to understand things now a days. Makes me look like I'm arguing. Maybe you have rear access problems but I'm not getting why you don't gently pound outward on crease to either just proud and back down or shy of proud and fill. There are plenty of shapes and bends in that area and there will be little or no metal movement/stretching when hammering. Is it more than just a sheet metal damage? like frame of drivers door is bent. See if Robert thinks cutting out and welding is really necessary here now with pics you have supplied. Need more pics! I thought, wrongly, that the choice was make new or buy new. Didn't realize you had a good donor piece.

Donor piece (green) has rot at the bottom. Looks like one could use just enough to repair that section of the cowl and leave the vent door area alone. (unless there was significant damage elsewhere in removal???)

Where I have the tooling here to fabricate what's needed for the bottom, it would be cheaper for me to make that little bit than to spend the time in sourcing, cost of item, etc. If I had to make the entire part and not just the bottom, then the replacement would be a better choice. Given the limited tools/resources you said you have, unless this is just to dive in and get your feet wet, buying the part would be a better option for you..

Ding ding ding

I think I may try my hand at it, just to do it. If it works, great. If it doesn't, I'm not out anything but some time and tinkering.

Bartamos - the picture of the green panel is from a donor. there is a slight vertical kink, but can certainly be worked out. It is very slight. The first picture of the red cowl is the on that was on the truck and it is probably set back an inch deep crease. It is hard to tell on the picture, but the it runs from the top of the vent all the way nearly to the bottom. The lower portion has rot and that is the part that I need to replace. The door frame is bent back (i've remedied that) and the door had been adjusted so that it would close. Never closed well, but it would stay shut. Door frame probably had 15 degrees of twist to it.

For clarity, both the original and donor panel have similar rot.

Yes I knew the green was the donor. I could see the red was part of the original truck. You say the red "was" on the truck. That must mean you already removed it? Another option is to try to fix the original while off the truck and weld it back on. That would be your best re-fit if you are drilling the spot welds out.
If you make the new roll under section, you can get the radius from using the other side as a template if both the orig and donor are gone.
Go for it. You didn't ask for advice on repair but if you do hammer and dolly, I have learned not too hit very hard at any time. Hit easy, easy, easy, slowly taking out the dent/crease. I have a carpet covered table with padding under the carpet and that is a good place to work dents. If I need less give, I put a piece of wood on top of the table and hammer on that as a backer. I have used soft grass areas also to work the major portion of a dent back to shape with a rubber mallet. Under a real "shade tree". If I am trying to take out a dent in a perfectly flat piece, I use a sold back but on a curved piece that would tend to give a flat spot. IMO.

Jon, do you have an acetylene torch?

yes, i have a acetylene torch w/ various tips including a rosebud.

Sorry so long to get back to you, busy weekend with the kid's cheerleading competition.

Looking at what you have to repair on the lower section of the green cowl, you likely could form that area by clamping some sheet metal in a vise and tap over the folds using a nice flat body hammer. Then to add the shrinking for the "roll under", I would use some heat and quenching. The flat part in the middle we would want to leave alone, no shrinking. Then, by shrinking the sides in a wide vee, and the flanges in a rectangular to match the wide vee's lower dimension, we should be able to water cool and provide shrink. See link:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/Metalworking/heatshrinking.jpg

Although not visible, you would want to heat both sides and flanges at the same time for better rolling action. Trying to heat only one side will leave the other trying to keep everything straight. You don't need it bright cherry red, as this will tend to cause more scale to form, but try to get both sides heated directly across from each other before quenching, for best results. Leave some excess on the ends in order to trim later, trying to radius right at the end doesn't give you much to work with, especially if you need to resort to plan B, which is heating, stick one end in vise to clamp, LIGHTLY pull toward the shrink direction, then quench. If you pull too much, it will kink. But heat the two sides and flanges, quench, then check to the truck for fitment. Move as needed for the next shrink spot, whether that is 1/4" , 1/2", etc. The wide vee and rectangular spots will likely (and should) overlap before all is said and done in order to get enough shrink in there to form the radius you need.

Here's a picture of me using this process, albeit on a single side and it is shown a bit too hot as I wanted to make sure the vee pattern showed up for the camera...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/Peter%20Romano%20Roof%20Repair/Picture100.jpg


Here is the entire thread, just to show you where and why it was being used. This will be a time consuming process, but should get the job done with what you have at your disposal..


http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=3634