The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop swap or not to swap ?

I have a 1954 1/2 Chevy panel truck no motor or Trans or rear end or springs . I also have a 1980 Chevy 1/2 ton in good shape with an automatic that I perched as a donor . I have perched a mustang two front end kit. But could use it in a dif rent project. I have skills and a big shop. Should I keep the original frame or swap it out for all the chasses in the 1980? On anuther form I was toled that the later truck was to wide And I heard it moor than once. The 1980 truck fram is 34" wide. The 54 is 44"wide

It is not so much the frame width, as it is the width of the rear end and the front suspension. You need to measure from the wheel flange to the wheel flange on both the front and rear and you will see the difference. The 80 truck is wider.

Hey BillE
Are you looking for a daily driver type vehicle or occasional driver vehicle???
If you want a driver than do the swap...you may have to find narrower rear end as that era truck the rear ends are wider than your panel truck is. Take a tape measure and see what the out to out is on the 1980 rear end and then measure the out to out on the fenders of the panel truck...
The more modern chassis will be much easier to find parts for...your local NAPA should carry a lot of those parts still..
Good luck with your project
MikeC

Would a slight body lift clear the fenders for a late 60s thru mid 80s axles? How much lift?

My cousin runs a rod/custom shop.He has done both,but left up to him,will always keep the original frame and adapt modern running gear to it.

Keep your original frame and update the suspension. Straight axles rule!! JMO.

Mitch

BillE,
You will get many good suggestions on which way to go, you’re the one to decide; it's your Truck. Depends a lot on what you want.

The power train you pick will help point you in a direction. My direction was dictated by what I wanted, fuel injected V8,headers, 14 bolt rear and Dana 60 4x4 front.

Wheel base vs/ 54 Panel, you have to shorten a full size donor, Chevy short bed frames are closer.
The width on the donor gives you a lot of advantage, if installing a V8, steering is on outside, but you will need to make a decision with tire width, pedal, Master Cylinder location.

The 54’ frame is almost flat under the body back to front vs/ the 80’ frame drops under the cab close to 5”. That can be a 5” body lift depending on how you approach mounting the body to the Donor frame.

Good Luck with your project

The fullsize pickups have a much wider track width (tire center to tire center) and as a result the wheels tend to stick out a bit. I prefer the S-10 swap, but on a panel it can take some tricky figuring to not lose so much floor. I think I lost 2 or 3" of box height on my S-10 swap.

Try this swap on for size. Chevy Trailblazer

http://www.vortec4200.com/forum1/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=939

http://s240.photobucket.com/user/ne...GMC%20Dyno/IMG_0773_zpsc119c078.jpg.html

Your 1980 frame is too big. It is easier to swap a front clip (say, mid '70s Camaro) to get PS, power disc brakes and SBC engine mounts. No worries about cab/box mounts.

Camaro and Trailblazer are both too wide in the front. Nova or 80's Malibu is narrower.

Suspension Measurements


REAR SUSPENSION:
The following is a general list of rear ends and their dimensions to help narrow the search for a possible candidate to replace the torque tube rear end or just get a better set of gears for highway driving.
Advance Design Trucks seem to be using rear ends with widths ranging from 58"- 62". I'm not sure of the Task Force width ranges at this time.
Contributing information were Bob Welch, J Forbes and various locations throughout the Web and Automotive Magazines.
Rear Axle Measurements
MEASURED ACROSS WHEEL MOUNTING SURFACE
56 1/2" 71-77 Ford Maverick 8",
57" 71-74 V-8 Mavericks 8", All '75-77 6's & 8's Maverick 5 Lug 8", 49-51 Ford, 57-59 Ford 9"
57 1/4" 64 1/2 - 65 Mustang
58" 78-88 Mid sized GM Car, Malibu/Monte Carlo (82 up Metric Studs), 80 Granada & Lincoln Versailles,
67-70 Mustang/Cougar/Fairlane, Regal with 10 bolt axle, S-10 P.U., 65-67 Nova
58 1/2 " Ford Grenada
59" 68-83 Corvette
60" 55-64 Chevy Car, 67-69 Camaro, 64-67 Chevelle, 68-74 Nova, 71-73 Mustang/Cougar, 84-95 Corvette
60-61" 64-69 1/2 ton 2wd Chevy/ Some GMC 6 lug rear end 12 bolt Coil spring set up Possible gear ratio's 3.70
62" 64-77 Chevelle, 73-76 Torino, 89 Trans Am,
70 2wd 6 lug rear end 12 bolt Possible gear ratio's 3:08, 3:40, 3:73
70-81 4wd 6 lug reared ...............................................................
71- Newer 2wd trucks use a 5 on 5 lug pattern
71-76 Full Size Cars " "" "" "
60" 60's GMC and some Chevy's Dana 44 or Dana 60 with leaf springs 6 lug, Gear ratio's 3.21 to 3.92. GMC V-6 used a 3.21 Dana 44 used a standard chevy 1310 yoke, Dana 60 used the heavy duty yoke which takes the larger 1350 yoke.


Approximate rear end widths measured from backing plate to backing plate.
Add Width to compensate for drums as follows:
4" - 5" for small cars 5" - 6" for intermediate cars 6" - 8" for large cars
48" - 49" 50" - 51" 52" - 53"
'71 Colt
'72 Cricket
'72-75 Datsun Pickup
'72-73 Mazda '65 Ram American
'74 Valiant '28-40 Ford , '57 - 59 Ford
'62 Buick Skylark, '67 Chevrolet Six
'67 Mustang Six , '68 AMX
'69 Javelin Six , '70 dodge
'70 Duster , '71-77 Maverick
'71 Comet , '71- 72 Pinto
54" -55" 56" -57" 58" - 59"
'39 -48 Chevrolet, '68 GTO
'41 -48 Ford, '68-72 Chevelle
'55 -57 Chevrolet, 68-69 Fair lane 6 or 8
'66 Falcon, '69 Chevrolet
'67 Mustang V-8, '69 Firebird
'69 Cougar, '71 -73 Nova
'73 Ventura, '73 Mustang '36 Plymouth, '54-56 Ford Pickup
'67 Lincoln, '69 Dodge
'69 Dodge Van, '71 Torino
'72 Cougar, '74 Pontiac '49 Plymouth, '61 Chevrolet Impala
'65 Cadillac, '66 Buick Wildcat
'66-67 Chevrolet Big Car, '72 Charger
'69 Oldsmobile 88, '72 Chrysler
'72-73 Torino


STOCK CENTER TO CENTER SPRING PERCH DISTANCE
25" 39" 42" 42 1/2
'68 - 72 Chevelle '71 Colt
'73 Mazda '68 -71 Fairlane/Torino
'49-51 Ford '69 Chevrolet
'69 Nova
'71 - 72 Pinto
'73 Ventura
43" 43 1/2" 44" 46 1/4"
'65 Ram American
'64 1/2-'65 Mustang
'67 Mustang
'70's Ford Grenada
'69 Firebird
'70 Dodge '71-77 Maverick
'70 Duster
'70 Nova
'71 Comet
'72 Dart
'72 Cougar
'74 Valiant '57 Ford
'67 Chevrolet Six
'68 AMX
'69 Javelin Six '69 Dodge
47 1/2" 48" 51" 57 1/2"
'39 -48 Chevrolet
'67 Chevrolet big car
'72 Charger
'72 Chrysler '69 Dodge Van
'69 Ford Van '67 Lincoln

BACK TO TOP OF PAGE

________________________________________
The following list of extensive information was contributed by R. Welch:

Original Vehicles
Rear Suspension Width (Flange to Flange)
Year Classic Vehicles Width
26-39 Plymouth-Dodge car/pick up 56-58"
40-52 Plymouth-Dodge car 60-62"
26-39 Chrysler/DeSoto Car 60"
Most Early Mopar's 56-62"
25-39 Chevy Car 56-58"
26-46 Chevy Truck 56-58"
40-48 Chevy Car 58-60"
49-54 Chevy Car 58-60"
47-54 & 55 1st Series Chevy Truck 60-62"
Most Early Buick,Olds, Pontiac 58-61"
28-31 Ford Car/Pickup 57 1/2"
32 & 33-34 Ford Car/Pickup 56 1/2"
35-48 Ford Car 57-60"
35-41 Ford Pickup 56-60"
49-58 Ford Car 57-58"
49-56 Mercury 57-58"
49-51 Mercury 61"
64 Falcon 58"
67 Cougar 60"
55-59 Chevy Pickup 62"


Donor Vehicles Front and Rear
Suspension Width (Flange to Flange)
Year Classic Vehicles Width Front Width Rear
74-79 Ford Mustang II/Pinto & Mercury Capri/Bobcat 55 ½" 55 ½"
71-77 Ford Maverick with 8" axle 56 ½"
75-80 Ford Granada with 8" axle 57 ½"
64-66 Mustang 57"
67-71 Mustang 59"
72-73 Mustang 60"
67-69 , & 60" Camaro 60"
64-67 Chevelle 60"
55-64 Chevy car 60"
65-67 Nova 58"
68-72 Nova 60" 60"
78 & up Monte Carlo, Regal, etc. with 10 bolt axle 58" 58"
68-72 Chevelle with 10 bolt axle 61 ½"
89 Trans AM (Disc brake) 62"
76-80 Camaro/Firebird 61 ½" 60 ½"
68-83 Corvette 58 ½" 59 ½"
84-95 Corvette 59 ½" 60 ½"
Early 70's "A" body (Dart/Duster) with V8&3/4 axle 58"
"E" Body (Cuda) with V8&3/4 axle 58"
Dodge Dart 59" 55 ½"
Plymouth Volare & Dodge Aspen 61" 60 ½"
71 Blazer (6 lug) 63 ¾"
75-78 Granada 9" (43" perch to perch) 52 ¼"
75-78 Maverick 9" (43" perch to perch) 56 ¼"
81-87 Olds Cutlass 58 ½"

________________________________________


FRONT SUSPENSION INFORMATION

Track Width of Popular Donor Car Clips
Manufacture Model Years Track Front/Rear Curb Weight
Chevrolet Nova 68-74 59.8-59.6 3,770
Buick Apollo 68-74 59.1-58.8 3760
Pontiac GTO 68-74 59.9-59.6 3880
Chevrolet Corvette 68-83 58.7-59.5 3655
84-95 59.6-60.4 3890
Chevrolet Camaro (Z28) 76-80 61.3-60.5 3820
Pontiac Firebird (TA) 76-80 61.3-60.5 3900
Ford Mustang II 74-79 55.6-55.8 3305
Pinto 74-79 55.6-55.8 3305
Mercury Capri 74-79 55.6-55.8 3305
Bobcat 74-79 55.6-55.8 3305
Chevrolet Monte Carlo 78-86 58.5-58.8 3235
Buick Century 78-86 59.0-58.8 3700
Pontiac Grand Prix 78-86 58.9-59.0 3735
Plymouth Volare 75-79 61.0-60.5 3395
Dodge Aspen 75-79 61.0-60.5 3395
Dodge Dart 76 59.2-55.6 3600

Table taken from "How to Build a Custom Classic Truck" Peterson Publication; June or July 1999
Written by: Don Emmons & Mike Briggs

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Want to know about swapping out a rear end.
and what to use Here's food for thought.... on 50’s chevy’s By: Jim Forbes


The 82-newer Camaros are wider than the older ones, so you should stick with the 70-81 models. The 75-79 Nova uses the same rear as these older Camaros, I believe. The 68-74 Nova chassis is the same as a 67-69 Camaro; the 75-79 Nova chassis is the same as the 70-81 Camaro. The 82-newer Camaros used the small 7.5" rear-end design that the 78-newer Malibu/Monte Carlo/regal/cutlass etc used, but it's quite a bit wider. Some of the 82-newer Camaros used different rear ends, such as the Dana 44, and some weird Australian rear-end. Of course, if you want to make sure, get out your tape measure and check yourself! I may be wrong.
Here's another one from Jim on the subject---- There are lots of rear ends available! Some fit better than others. For 6 lug rear ends, the 64-69 1/2 ton 2wd Chevy (and some GMC) trucks have a 12 bolt rear, about 60-61" wide (I measure them where the wheels bolt on). The 70 2wd and 70-81 4wd have a 6 lug 12 bolt that is a couple inches wider, but will fit under an Advanced Design or Task Force truck as long as you don't get too wild with wheel/tire width. The heavy duty models have a 2.75’’ brake shoe, that’s stopping power. The 12 bolt truck rear ends from the 60s usually had 3.70 gears, which is a bit much for extended highway driving at 75 mph. You can swap the differential carrier and ring/pinion gears from a later TRUCK or VAN 12 bolt, the 70s trucks usually had 3.08 or 3.40 gears. Of course, you'll need to know how to set up ring/pinion gears, bearing preload, and all that other neat stuff to do this. These 60s truck 12 bolt rear ends are from coil spring trucks, so the perches are in the wrong place, and they have some extra stuff on the housing for a panhard bar, which you won't need with leaf springs. Most 60s GMC trucks, and some Chevys, had Dana 44 or Dana 60 rear ends, and leaf springs. These rear ends are 6 lug, about 60" wide, and will bolt into a Task Force truck (with some fudging, the perches are about 1/2" too far apart). The brakes use different parking brake cables, which is a problem, and the drums have a different offset. Gear ratios range from 3.21 to 3.92 normally, the 3.21 is found behind some GMC V-6 engines, and is a nice ratio for an old truck. The Dana 44 uses a standard Chevy 1310 yoke, but the Dana 60 uses a heavy duty yoke, which takes a larger 1350 series ujoint. A similar Dana 40 rear-end was available as an option in 59 Chevy trucks, equipped with positraction...rare, and with a 3.92 ratio. I have one of these rear ends; it was in my extended cab truck...I'm saving it for when I build a race truck (one of these years).
The 71 and newer 2wd trucks use a 5 lug 5" bolt pattern, same as the 71-76 full size cars. There is not much available in the way of matching front brake rotors that will fit an old truck, so this rear-end is not too popular a swap, unless you get the 70-up 4wd 6 lug axles. Chevy also used 10 or 12 bolt rear ends in lots of cars, in varying widths. The heavy duty models have a 2.75’’ brake shoe. A common one is the 61" wide 70s vintage Camaro/Chevelle/Nova (and clones) 8.5" rear-end. In Camaros/Novas it has leaf springs, but the perches won't work with old truck springs. In Chevelles, it has coil springs, with lots of extra brackets to cut off, and the cast in mounting "eyes" on top, where the upper control arm bushings fit. Wheel bolt pattern is 4.75", and there are front disk brake kits available to match, or you can use the 53-54 car front hubs/drums on the original 50s truck brakes, to get the same bolt pattern front/rear. This is a good rear-end for using in an old truck, the ratios are commonly 2.73-3.36, with higher gears available. The axle shafts are usually worn out in these things, so check them (pull the cover, lockpin, and C clips out to get them loose) where they ride in the wheel bearings...before buying the rear-end! The 55-57 Chevy car rear-end is almost a bolt in, the perches need to be relocated to the top of the housing though. It has the 4.75" bolt pattern, and ratios are usually 3.55-3.73, but sometimes you'll find a 3.36. The 78-88 mid size GM cars use a 7.5" 10 bolt, which is about 58/5" wide. This rear-end would work well in an early (older than 47) truck, but it is quite light duty. Ratios are usually 2.29-3.23, which means you want some torque in the engine to pull it...but rpm will be low. This is a coil spring rear-end, with all the mounting brackets that need to be cut off. The Ford 8" and 9" rear ends come in a whole bunch of varieties, and only a few are useful in oletrucks. The late 50s full size cars have a nice one, but it's not easy to find brake hardware, drum, etc anymore. The mid 60s midsize cars, such as the Fairlane, have a rear-end that is about the right width, and would be a good candidate...if you can find one. The Maverick/Granada is very narrow, about 56.5", and would not fit anything but a very early truck, or perhaps a tubbed Pro Street truck. The 60s full size Ford car rear ends are usually too wide, but if you find one, measure it and see! Most earlier full size, and all mid size, cars use the 4.5" bolt pattern, while later full size cars use the 5" pattern. The Ford trucks have a big 5 on 5.5" pattern, with a big center that takes some work to redrill to anything Chevy. Ratios range from 2.47 to 4.30, and the axles come in 28 or 31 spline varieties. There is lots of interchange possible with the 9" rear-end, which is why it's so popular...I have one in my 55 Belair, and in my 57 Suburban chassis. Unfortunately, they are getting expensive, especially when you have to shop around for just the right one that will fit. So...if you don't know if a rear-end will fit, or what it came from, get out your tape measure and see for yourself! The most important things are overall width, and wheel bolt pattern...then concern yourself with ratio. I like a 2.75-3.0 ratio for a V-8 powered truck that will spend lots of time on the highway; about 3.2-3.7 for a 6 cylinder or small V-8 for in town and limited highway use, and the stock 3.9-4.56 ratio is great if you have to use your truck to haul lotsa weight, and you don't have much engine...just don't plan on going much faster than 55!


if this isn't enough i have more or you can find all this on the net
hope it helps someone

I did a drivetrain swap using a 1980 4X4 suburban to a 1956 GMC suburban. Both trucks were 34". Keep the old frame for sure. Whole lot better. Adapt axles to frame. Wheel back spacing can help if too wide. Many components will stay on old frame (the list is a mile long). The main fab is limited to engine mount, tranny mount, steering hook up, spring hangers/shackles fab and driveshaft shortened. Both the 80 4x4 and the 1956 were leaf spring all four. Since you have both vehicles like I did, you can take both bodies off and really plan it all out looking at both frames. Keeping the straight axle (adding PS and disc) or doing a 4X4 is way easier than a clip.

buy the vendors standard kit but to me it's STILL not FAR enough back to center the axle. so here is a way to accomplish this

http://s67.photobucket.com/user/1951otter/media/Scan1_0001-1.jpg.html?sort=6&o=336

He was talking about the wheel measurements, backspace is the distance from the wheel mounting face to the back edge of the wheel. It seems like you're talking about moving the rear diff front to back? Maybe I'm just not getting what you're saying.