The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Mallory, Pertronix, Langdon or??

They do still offer one for the 235, but you are correct about the price. They've gone up about double what I paid for mine about 15 years ago. Part of that could be that mine is a Magnetic Breakerless model, the current ones are Unilites, though. I'm pleased with the performance, but there are a few things that the venders seem to neglect to mentions, mainly that they should be run with an ignition box for best performance, especially if you run a hot coil (I have a 3-RLi box and Promaster coil). Other than the original cap burning out the center contact, I have had no problems with it.
I will freely admit, were I to do it again, I probably would stick with a stock distributor with points. Only reason I didn't was that the bushings and shaft were shot in mine, and replacements were not readily available at the time locally.

About 2 yrs and 8K miles ago I changed the dist on my 72 air cooled 1600DP VW engine to a Hot Spark electronic dist. Hot Spark is a Chinese knockoff of the Pertronix and so far it works OK. To be truthful I can't tell any difference in performance. The original dist that was on the engine was an "009" type that doesn't include vac adv and was primarily for high performance engines. To cure a hesitation problem I needed to change it to a dist w/vac adv and in the process I went pointless. I carry that 009 with points installed and set in my road tool box for just in case.
With all that said I also saw the opportunity to lessen my scheduled maintenance regime by getting away from points but it's rare that I'm not out and about and not think about the Hot Spark failing at the absolute worst time..... S0 I carry that backup dist w/points and necessary tools.....

I have no plans top change the points dist in the 216 on my 49 3100 as that engine starts and runs remarkably well. I'm not going to fix it if it ain't broke.
But I do want to build a high performance 235 or 261 on down the road and I'll cross the dist road when I get to it. As everyone knows chrome and polished aluminum adds HP
Good discussion
Dave

Hey Deve, There is a reason that the "modern" HEIs look so different. GM made them fatter so there was less chance of crossfiring in the cap. Also, to get HEIs to work right, you have to replace the vacuum advance with one with a lower opening "pull," and replace the counterweight springs with lighter ones. The reason for all this is to get around the fact that the HEI was designed for emission control, and NOT High Performance. That HP was part of the package was a freebee that all the boy racers took advantage of. Like the 235, the 250 and the 350, the HEI is a good idea that folks will continue to use and modify for years!

Best wishes,

Les

Discussions don't get any better than this! My late friend John Erb took his 49 3100 from Hesston, KS to Anchorage, AK. He had a whole box of stuff he thought he might need. New starter, generator, regulator, points.... more. He got there and back without so much as a hiccup. These trucks are already quite nice as they are. His had the R10 OD, but mostly stock other than that.

I remember when HEI first came out, say the first 5 years or so, they had problems, but in the past 30 years, they are so reliable. With the performance always being spot on, I really wanted good advice. I got it as I always do. Thanks!

The reason I run a Pertronix here in the UK is many of us have loads of issues with Condensors, everyone here is talking about points bieng reliable and they are, they are mechanical.
However correct me if I am wrong but 95% of condensors these days are made in China they are made with inferior grade materials designed for low ambient temperatures.
I am sure if you can find a stock of NOS condensors you will be fine.
Under the bonnet of a truck is the worse place you can put a condensor, they are subject to a huge range of temperatures and moisture levels, modern ones dry out very quickly when they get warm.
I have a Mallory points dissy on my flathead Ford and it left me on the road fiddling under the bonnet several times before I took the condensor off the dissy and mounted it via a long wire under the dash, after I fitted it under the dash it never failed, but after I swapped to a Pertronix it certainly started quicker and revved much more cleanly.
My 56 Truck will run a Pertronix but with a set of points and 2 condensors in the glove box.
Trick with a Pertronix is to use their coil, the black one not chrome and make sure the dissy is well earthed, my local dealer has sold 100's of these and most failures are down to poor earthing.
Rich

Rich, good post! And you are picking up on our language very nicely, mate. (Is that the proper use of your word 'mate'?)

Hotroddickie brings up a very good set of observations. We have all had to deal with poor materials in replacement and "upgrade" parts for so long we have forgotten to look at easy solutions. Moving the condenser to a dry location beats whining about it. And the idea that a good ground and stable voltage might make that HEI live longer makes such good sense that we might over look it. The tip on the coil to match the Pertronix is good usable information. Thanks Rich.
Any one want to make a "Runtz" for that Pertronix? It just might solve the question about dependability.

Right...it almost negates the need to carry spares, as you'd have plenty of "warning," so-to-speak. The only "catastrophic" failures (that leave you stranded) I've had with point systems is when the condensor took a dump. So the spares are still a good idea, I s'pose.

When I bought this '48 Fleetline last month, the rubbing block had worn so much that the point gap was nearly undetectable. I'd say maybe a .003-.004 gap, max...and it was still starting and running surprisingly well!

Hotroddickie, your post caught my attention regarding moving the condensor to inside the cab. It sounds ingenious. By the way, where might one buy a quality condensor, i.e., one of the 5% that you suggest might be better?

I came to this thread because I, too, am trying to decide whether to keep points & condensor or move over to HEI. I am going crazy trying to decide. I have a stock daily driver '66 C10 250 w/2sp auto Powerglide and Rochester B. I guess we all have our own criteria, and I think I am an oddball. For me, I know that there is nothing in the world that is guaranteed to never break down. I just want to reduce the risk and I want to be able to fix it myself if it does occur. I am not worried so much about breaking down in town on a week day. I do worry about, and I prefer to be prepared for, a breakdown on Christmas Day, in a snow storm, 500 miles from home, with the grandkids, late at night, and with the beginnings of the flu. Reliability only means so much in life, and a "what if" scenario excludes the "reliability" argument in my mind. I know what reliability is. Most of my life, until a couple months ago, I drove brand new, leased, vehicles. Almost never broke down in 30 years of leasing. I appreciate the new stuff. Even though I can’t fix a darn thing in them because I do not have an advanced degree in computers, or possess the scanners, or have hands small enough to get to any part. But they are nice. Just be sure to drive these cars with a cell phone in your pocket. Preferably a well charged cell phone.

Did you note the word, "almost" when I said I never broke down in some 30 years of driving new cars? Well I had one breakdown in a 'reliable' computerized car some years ago that nearly ruined my life. Some sensor thigamigiga decided to ‘die.’ Yes, I know it was a circumstance peculiar to me, an oddball lightning strike, in what was otherwise regarded as a very fine automobile. And, sure, I know that when a premium plan road service says they will get to me in an hour and it takes them 5, that is unusual, too. And.... well, I do not want to recollect the entire experience. Suffice it to say that this reliable car broke down and it cost me big time and until today I whine about it and when I get to meet the Lord I want to talk about that breakdown...

Today, all I have is my truck. I am on a strict budget. If something breaks and I cannot fix it myself, I will have to choose between food and the mechanic. So I figure that if I already have a truck which I have to service myself, then I might as well make it as painless as possible. I can hardly change a light bulb in these new, ‘reliable,’ vehicles. But I just rebuilt my carburetor in my ‘old’ truck. I have not made any final decision yet about HEI. I came here to research. But I am leaning toward spending my little hard earned money on a quality p/c distributor with its spare parts. At least this way, I have peace of mind no matter where I get stuck -if I do get stuck. Sure, I have a cell phone on me. But now I can chit-chat on that cell instead of worrying that its battery will die while some road service plan puts me on hold for 45 minutes in order to tell me that they will get to me whenever and that I should look for a motel for the night.

In the end, one can debate endlessly about everything. We got these trucks because they make us feel good. I, for one, feel good knowing that if I break down in the middle of nowhere I won’t be a man standing there like some impotent holding back tears of a baby. These old trucks will work for you for a lifetime. Those computerized cars, no matter how reliable when new, will, at some point sooner or later, drop dead on you with no prior notice. We live in a day and age when a 20 cent chip will strand you, and you will pay a dealer $350 to replace it -whenever you get home. Anyway, technology advances in vehicles are great. But they betrayed my trust a couple times and that is not easy to regain. Sorry for the long post. -Alden

It all comes down to personal preference. Each ignition systems has its pro's and con's. A person should buy what they are comfortable using and then decide if you want to carry spare parts or not.

There is a reason the condenser is located as close as possible to the points. Without getting into a long discussion on capacitive reactance and a lot of other terms only a few of us would understand and get into a long-winded argument over, the closer a condenser is to the mechanical switch it's designed to protect, the better it works. It would require some pretty advanced electronic calculations to determine the capacitance necessary for a condenser mounted several feet away from the points instead of inches.
Jerry

Jerry, yes, you make a sobering point. Still, with brand name condensers approaching $10 each nowadays, it would be interesting to know whether there is anything a consumer might reasonably do to extend the life of it. Obviously, it would not be feasible to go out and spend $100 or more on heavy welder's cable, etc., in order to obtain another few years out of a ten dollar part that can be swapped out in a few minutes with no muss or fuss. And it seems to me, after some thinking, that if someone is burning through condensers with any frequency, something is not right under the hood. I would be very surprised (and disappointed) to hear that AC Delco units are failing. I do not know what brand Hotroddickie is using. And we do not know whether he was properly matching up his condensers with the coil, testing capacitance, etc. I cannot recall hearing a bad word about AC Delco's condensers. I do not know where AC Delco manufactures their condensers, but I feel sure that they are good, reliable, condensers and enjoy a well-deserved reputation. Regarding the size of a remotely sited condenser, that is a calculation that is way out of my league. Perhaps someone among the many thousands of people who use these forums has done this 'mod' and will share their knowledge. I had understood from Hodroddickie's post that he has the condenser already remotely sited and operating to satisfaction. I assumed that he was using heavy gauge cable with the OEM condenser and was happy with the results. But, until I can find the time to research this mod for myself, I think the best course for anyone preferring the old school distributors is to buy a reputable brand name, maintain it properly, keep spares on hand when it is simple to do so, and enjoy it. I, personally, do not feel it to be such a burden to own a dwell meter and the other rather inexpensive test equipment it takes to have notice of the impending end of life of a part. I would be spending much more maintaining a new car, because on a new car, I cannot do anything more than change a light bulb! -Alden

I started this post another generation ago, and I am very thankful for all the posts. But please bear with me, I am a little slow. I HEAR Pertronix has this gizmo that goes inside your stock distributor and is the end all, be all of electronic ignition for vintage vehicles. What is this and is it all its cracked up to be? I was thinking about the bigger picture. Had no idea there was this small kit that was a good thing? (thanks everyone!)

...here's a pic Deve...

It's just a little chingadera that bolts inside

Most likely someone will post that the Pertronix unit is unreliable (chingadera?).

I have two (a 12v and a 6v) that have been reliable for 10+ years.

I also carry a spare distributor (fully tuned and ready to pop in) just in case the Pertronix unit fails.

Good plan on the spare distributor, Tim! Just carrying a set of points in the glove box won't help you if the Pertronix fails. You will need different wires, the old wire insulator, the special tool to tighten the weird nut which holds the insulator on, and a new coil if the Pertronix failed due to leaving the ignition on without the engine running. Found that out the hard way. Fortunately it was in front of the house. I am running points now, and my performance is not as good as with the Pertronix.
Carl

Thank you guys. I want to do that. Carl it would not be hard to make an isolation circuit to keep that from happening. Sound like I need to look into that if its a real issue.

BTW, does anyone have a link to the right one for our purpose?

Thanks!

I have had two pertronix fail on me, using their special coil, I asked on this very forum if anyone had the same experience, I got 10 replies, 4 of which were the "I would never use it again" variety, that along with my 2 failures makes 6 out of 12 against. Not to mention the same topic on another forum with about the same numbers. The only time my truck has failed to get me home in 30 years is when I "UPGRADED" my ignition. It didn't run any better, perhaps even worse, and no amount of tinkering with points for the rest of my life will ever equal that windy rainy day along side the road waiting for the bus with my family in tow. To go home and get the little bag of parts, and wrenches I had in the glove box just for this sort of thing. That I had taken out earlier and forgot to put back in. Then to go stand in the same wind and rain switching everything back. I'll stick with the points thank you. No to mention I have a lifetime supply of real NOS points I got on Ebay for $35. I still have the replacement unit pertronix sent me, but I can't bring myself to install it.

What is your purpose, Deve?

6v (pos or neg ground) or 12v, and what year distributor?

Interseting read with good pros and cons for both sides and it seems to boil down to oersonal preference. I've had my 54 pickup since 78, and have had noreal issuses with point ingition other than a couple ccondenser s die, a contact tab that fell of a new set of points in the middle of nowhere. I did have the old set in my tool box. And the coil gave up. I went to 12v many years ago and it has been ok execpt for one condenser failure. However, 3 years ago I decided to go with the gm 250 hei conversion and I believe that has been one of the best upgrades I've done in years, simply because itstarts much better, runs smoother at an idle and it does have better acceleration response. I am not one for monitoring fuel milage, it does ok and it is what it is. About 5 years ago I put a pertonix setup in a friends 52 gm with a 261, it lasted all of 50 miles and burnt to a crisp. They wouldnt go good on warranty so back to points and condenser. For what it is worth I put a used hei in my truck, cost...40 bucks an hour to modify the shaft and fab up new hold down clamp, another hour to time it and road test and tweek it some more, adjust the carb a bit, and its all good......just my musings.

12v neg 1950 for a 261. Thanks!

Deve

I called the pertronix help line
Gave them the S/N of my distributor
Along with the voltage info and ground

1167 is what I'm using, (my not be correct for your application).

If you do end up calling them have your distributor S/N handy

I have the original ignition system in all of my Stovebolt engines. I have always purchased top of the line Napa or Delco ignition parts and knock on wood I have never been stranded because of ignition part failure. By design these ignition systems require periodic maintenance. I do have a Pertronix ignition conversion in a '47 Flathead that I own. I was stranded with that car because of a condenser failure. By design with the distributor mounted to the front of the engine access to fix it alongside the road is difficult at best. I have been very pleased with the Pertronix system but have learned a few things over the past 5 years running it. The system needs a good ground and also a good constant voltage supply. I have a ground wire attached to the side of the distributor. I had issues with the car stumbling at times, especially at night when I needed the headlights. I did some testing and found that my generator was working as it should but did learn that it just didn't have enough to keep up with headlights, radio and the demands of the ignition system. I installed an alternator earlier this summer and have since solved that issue.
When it comes to ignition and voltage some standard practices go a long way. The power supply wires and ground wires need to be in good shape. The connectors need to be properly crimped to the wire. I have seen so many guys twisting wires together or using poor quality connectors, they lead to trouble...always. One last thing is to trace wires to the point of origin to make sure a complete circuit can be made. Wires that have been added to usually end up with a voltage loss because of poor splices, bad connectors or improperly crimped connectors or junk wire added. Sometimes the little things go a long way to having something work good.
Don

Good points on good connections for powers and grouonds Don. I do use crimp connecters at times but prefer to do solder connections, thats ingrained in me from my years working in a dealership. Warranty doesnt approve of butt connecters and while they work most of the time they do create problems at times. What I was going to mention though is using relay switched power for distributers/ingnition systems. Pull the power from batterg instead of starter and run thru a relay switched by ignition switch. Will give better power to ignitiin system as power from starter will be drawn down during star up. This will work with all igntion systems including 6V. Not a new concept as it has been discussed here before. If the igintion system had its own power circuit that would be best. And yes the 52 gmc had been converted over to neg grd. We aslo converted it to 12 V. So deve its your call now! I'd say you've got lots of input. One last thing on the stock distributer, check it out carefully. Make sure the cam lobes aren't worn, vac advance is free and tight, gov wieghts and springs are good and move freely. Basicly a worn out dist assy creats problems.

It would be simpler to turn off the ignition before going to bed for the night. BTW leaving the ignition on without the engine running, using Pertronix, melted the plastic top (which is on the bottom on the 235) of the coil!

Deve,

Call Pertronix, they now sell a 1168SP for 12v 235s/261s.

Thanks! All this time I thought you had to change the whole distributor. When you say you have a ready-to-go backup distributor handy, is it also modified? Wouldn't it have to be to go with the Pert coil? Thanks again everyone!

I believe the Pertronx coil is equivalent to a "resistor" coil?

That being the case, I can use the same point-based spare distributor in a 6v or a 12v 235/261 (late 1954 and onwards engines had the same distributor drive gear).

Tim, I agree that the Pertronix coil is equivalent to a resistor coil. I still prefer to use a genuine Pertronix coil in my stuff. I have seen a number of guys with different problems including coil issues. I've had good luck thus far and think I'll stick to it. I don't think that the price of the Pertronix coil is much more than getting a coil from a FLAPS.

I use a Pertronix coil in my 12v system (15+ years).

That is why I can use my same spare distributor in both my 6v and my 12v trucks.

We need to send flowers, candy, cookies, and bourbon to Hotrod Lincoln to quicken up his recovery so he he can finish his HEI that looks like a stock distributor project!
Carl

But with the Pertronix Chingadera, it IS your real stock distributor and can be put back to original if you don't like it. Not sure I see a downside other than others reliability issues. I am one of those hardheads that has to go thru the misery or satisfaction myself. I'm going to get one of those and try it. Thanks all!