The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Tool Chest Anyone want to recommend a "good" quality tap and die set?

Since I don't do this for a living, I don't need a "Mercedes" quality set, a good "buick" set will work fine, but also don't want the "Yugo" version. The last post I could find via a forum search was back in 09 when John M. was on the hunt. Thanks.

I don't impress my friends with this 40 piece SAE tap & die set but it I've had it for more than 15 years and it still does the jobs on my 3rd/4th restorations. I bought a higher quality tap handle but it broke. I just keep using the cheap handle that came in the kit.

I have not had to find out if they honor the life time warranty.

What type of work do you intend to put these tools to?

I do not know about comparing these to a Yugo, but maybe a comparison to a Geely or a Lifan might make you feel better?

Unbelievable Tim! If you've got 3-4 restorations and 15 years out of this set, it will more than satisfy my needs. Will need new threads here and there, but seldom, most often than not to clean up after paint or weld spatter, or due to 60 years of mother nature's moisture. Heck, at this price, I can even spring for the metric set !
Well done.

I'd recommend the Hanson Irwin set in the little blue box. They're great quality and not very expensive. I think they're the same as what Snap-On rebrands and sells for lots more money (with their good warranty).

My set is a cabinet full of good name brand taps and dies, but if I bought a set in a box it'd be the Hanson Irwin, or Greenfield.

I do have an imported metric tap and die set and it is near junk... except I don't have a better metric set and it will clean threads OK sometimes.. not good for making new threads, too poor a quality.
So from my experience I would not buy a "cheap" imported tap and die set and expect much.

Being a machinist though I appreciate good tools and may have higher expectations on what makes a good tap and die set. And my advice to a non machinist is buy a good set, you'll have better luck with good tools than with so-so or plain poor quality tools.

Grigg

30 years ago, or so, I bought a Craftsman set. Still works like a champ. Doubt it is the same quality they put out these days.

I also have an old Craftsman set and it is in the same box that the Hanson sets are in. Perhaps Hanson also supplied Craftsman as I suspect they do Snap-On.
I too doubt present day Craftsman is the same as the old ones...

Grigg

I'm working with a set of Craftsman passed down from my great uncle( grandmas brother). They have to be close to 45, 50 years old. Still work great.

....some of the tools made years ago were made with better steel/material. Today we buy the "same" part number but the material is not the same as back then. They cheapen some products along the way but continue to claim the same quality.
For some reason, I still reach for some WIZARD (western auto) wrenches that I've had since the 60's and they even feel better in the hand.

I've been in the need of another tap and die set and appreciate the post you guys have made. I've been "trying" to use a Chinese set and cussed it everytime I tried a tap or die..... well, one day I just tossed the entire set in the big trash can and promised myself the next set would be much better!!
HMmmm, maybe Santa still has time to get me one

Thanks for that post Bruce. I never knew there was such a thing. I have used a die to clean up threads and sometimes it seems to make the nut a bit loose. So I guess there is something a bit different with the restoring set.

Dennis

Ok we need to settle this. You machinist types (ie Grigg and Jerry HL) may know if the chasers are slightly smaller/bigger than taps and dies to prevent a sloppy fit. Dad always used taps/dies to cleanup threads.

Thread chasers generally don't cut, they more squish or roll or try to push the damaged threads back into place and scrape off some crud and rust, they may cut but usually not well or much. Not ever intended to cut threads from scratch.
A tap or die will cut away damaged portions.
A dull/well used tap is my perfered method to chasing threads and cleaning gunk out of a threaded hole. They're accurate so not much risk of removing any more material than necessary.

I have some thread chasers and use them occasionally but sometimes they remove some or do more harm than good... I thought they were good quality but perhaps not as nice as I'd like.

Now cleaning male threads with a die... most male threads are "rolled" to form them, like on bolts, not cut. So to use a die to clean or straighten them will most always cut a little from the valleys. Not a big problem but you may loose a tiny bit of strength advantage that rolled threads have over cut threads, I usually wouldn't worry about it. Adjustable dies can be opened or closed a little to just fit and clean existing threads without doing any damage.

Grigg

Take a close look at a thread chaser set- - - -the sharp edges at the top of the "tap" and the bottom of the "die" aren't there so the tool doesn't cut at all. It just pushes the thread back into shape if it isn't severely damaged. A good-quality tap and die set will be sharp, and it will be made of chrome-vanadium tool steel, not "carbon steel". Carbon steel tooling is for short-term use, and isn't expected to last for repeatedly cutting threads.

I make my own thread chasers by grinding a few thousandths off the crest of the thread of a tap that's started to get a little dull, and painting the shank of the tap red to alert me to the fact it's been modified. The same thing can be done to a die with a small cylindrical grinding wheel in a Dremel tool. These modified tools seem to work a lot better than commercially-made chasers.
Jerry

Over time I have bought taps, one at time, as I need them. Until the big box stores eliminated my local shop it only took me about 3 minutes to get there. I ended up with a pretty good set of decent ones but there are a lot of little stuff I always need.
Short of it is while in town today I dropped by Harbor Freight and bought one of the sets mention here in the beginning. Being "on sale" and with a 25% off coupon I only paid $11.39 for the set.
As Jerry said, carbon is for short term use ect.... so I figure it may outlast me!!! For 11 bucks I'll use it a time or two and pitch it in the trash like the last ones..... maybe Santa will bring me a nice set next year, if I'm still around.

I've got a set of Westward tap and die. They've worked really well for the couple of years I've had them.

The best stuff, will be a quality High speed steel or cobalt tap or die. And you will get them from places like this.
http://www.mscdirect.com/
http://www.swifttool.com/
http://www.aronson-campbell.com/
http://www.blackhawkid.com/Contact.aspx

Hummm, I had not considered a tap or die to cause damage to a fastener. I just thought the fastener was "beyond" salvage. I have found a little trick that minimizes the damage..if you are still interested. Use a bit of wheel bearing grease in the flutes of the tap or die. It seems to pull the chips, rust and crud out if the way. Helps with galled threads as well. I have used the "thread chasers" that look like a file for minor damage control. You can cause all kinds of havoc if you use the wrong thread pitch for sure. Still have some fasteners that will not clean up even after the tap and die treatment. Most were deformed or bent just a bit and were beyond saving.

I have had two exact same size/pitch bolts and several nuts will thread on the one and none will go on the other until I chase it's threads. It's the plating/finish on the bolt. You end up taking it off and probably exposing it to corrosion. But I don't want to go back to the store so I do it. I have always used my regular taps and dies to chase threads and have never had a problem with that. Never really understood the reason for special chasers. I always take off the handle when unscrewing the die/tap so as not to damage my good job I just did with too much unthread wobble. I would seriously try to get a set of dies that are hex. It's real handy to use your sockets sometimes in tight places and they will NEVER slip in the handle.

I'm going with the Irwin/Hansen set. They seem to be the best when I have to use them. You can get them just about anywhere. I got some Kobalts from Lowes awhile back, seem pretty good.

Nothing beat the set my old man has at his shop though. It's in a wooden case, probably been there for 60 years. Don't know the brand, with all the grease and oil on the case. Don't make them that anymore.

For good-quality tooling at reasonable prices, try these guys:

http://www.victornet.com/

I buy a lot of the taps, dies, cutting tools, measuring tools, and other machine shop type stuff from them. They do have a minimum order amount, but it's low enough I don't have a problem meeting it.
Jerry

Any one tried to find a good "bottoming" tap? Most places don't know they exist.

I grind the first few threads off a taper tap or a plug tap, and it becomes a bottoming tap. Those threads are the first ones to get dull or chip anyway, so I've usually got a spare taper tap around in the more common sizes for threading drilled holes where no threads existed before.
Jerry

That is a nice cost effective solution! Thanks!

Ok Steve H, I'll take the bait, what the heck do you use it for?

A bottoming tap is used to get threads all the way to the bottom of a blind hole.

When I'm drilling/tapping a rifle receiver for scope mounts, I might only have a blind hole 5 or 6 threads deep to work with. Getting every bit of that hole threaded requires a starting cut with a plug tap, followed by a bottom tap to chase the last few turns to full depth. On a 6-48 thread, the trick is getting the holes fully threaded without breaking the tap off in a 100-year-old receiver that might cost a couple of thousand dollars!
Jerry

Tools! Ya gotta love them. Special tools? Only when ya need them. Blind holes and thru holes....Are we having fun yet? Never be afraid to ask the question. There are special taps for very specific tasks. Ever take a micrometer apart? Lots of thread pitch issues come up with old stuff from the "Pre-standard" years. Try to get a good answer to the ream verses hone question some time. And yes old gun parts are fun too.

Well, for what it's worth ... I found a Pre-WWII Blue Point tap and die set at an auction 2 years ago. It was in nice shape and complete. I got it for $25 and it's been doing everything I've needed to do with such a set of tools -- I know Grigg cringes at the thought of me wielding a tap ...

JM

Find any taps you desire here, call in the morning and your
order will normally be on the UPS truck the next day. No
minimums, no need to be a business like Grainger, great people
to work with:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-taps/=qpui9s

Haven't disagreed with ya for a while Jerry, but I will here.
When you grind the end off a tapered or plug tap there is no
chamfer on the leading threads which puts a lot of stress on
the tap. Even bottom taps have a couple of chamfered threads on
the leading edge and a modified bottom can have several, they
just lead into the straight thread sooner.

Denny Graham
Hopin' not to break a tap, in Sandwich, IL

McMaster-Carr is a great source. Their printed catalog has a wealth of info on tools, and I like the the website for CAD drawings. I have used them years - as Denny said - very helpful and very fast.

Those print catalogs are as scarce as hens teeth Tracy, Even
when I was in business and was ordering a lot of material at
the lab I could never get them to send me one. I've got one
that was handed down by a friend but that was the only way I've
been able to acquire one. Guess I'm just old fashioned but I
still would rather look things up in hard copy. Right Grigg?.
dg

Back in the early 70s I bought a Craftsman 59 piece tap and die set,the one in the charcoal grey case.
It did everything that was asked to do with it.
Someone musta thought they needed it more than me and it went missing.
Finally broke down and bought the Irwin Hanson set that Grigg is on about,8yrs or so ago and been very happy since.
Regards,
steve sr.

Let me know, I'll send you a couple , few. They musta been sending them all to me!

Must have something to do with where your located Mark, back
here really, they just simply don't send them out.
The first few years that I worked at the accelerator lab, back
in the early 80's they would blanket the whole lab with them,
secretaries, cleaning people, etc., all had one in their mail
box. Same thing with Grainger and Allied Electronics, you could
literally take a truck load of catalogs home if you got to the
trash cans by the mail boxes before they got dumped. That
blanket technique only lasted a few years and for the last
decade or so that I worked there only the buyers for the lab
got the catalogs. Story I've gotten from the sales people is
that they're trying to eliminate the hard copy catalogs since
they've gone to the online catalog. Last copy I got was #108,
dated 2002 and as I said that was sent to me by a friend, not
from the company so it's pretty out dated.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I got this snap on set off of ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261368960716?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

john G

I've had my Hansen set for many years. Not the best, not the worst. Fine for home and DIY uses.

http://www.acehardware.com/product/...=2568443.2568450.2628076.2629205.1259511

Shelling out a bunch of cash for a NEW large expensive set doesn't make sense for most home shops. There will be many sizes that you may never use. I suggest buying a used or an inexpensive set for chasing threads. If you're going to be cutting new threads then just buy (new) the item you that need.

One thing I recommend to not scrimp on, is the tap wrenches and die handles. I have mostly Starrett tap wrenches and we have several Greenfield die handles at work (as well as many other different brands).

About McMaster-Carr, I've been told that sometimes they may substitute if they don't have the exact item. It seems to me that their catalog usually doesn't seem to list the brand, but don't quote me on that. I do buy from them, but not usually taps, dies or drills (drill bits).

I do however buy lot's tooling for our shop several times a week and have had lots of luck with many different brands of taps. I like Greenfield, Cleveland, Guhring and OSG just to name a few.

I have had very good success buying from MSC for our company.

http://www.mscdirect.com/

That's where I order most of our tooling from. We get next day delivery (usually free) but, that's a benefit they provide us as we order several thousand of dollars worth of merchandise from them every month.

In a nut shell, I recommend buying a good used set (for home use) and adding to it as necessary.

John

I agree with John. I seldom use a die so when I needed a tap I drove up to Ace Hardware and bought individual taps. Now I have a pretty good set without buying a lot I don't need. Sadly, Ace closed its doors here in my little town about a year ago and now I'm forced to go else where.

I learned that lesson the hard way. I was rebuilding a 283.I was just making sure there were no obstructions in the main cap thread holes so it would torque properly.When I was torqueing the bolts one of them took what was left of the threads out. I had to helicoil that one. Never chase threads with a tap.They are designed to cut steel and do it very well.---Jack