I have a 46 1/2ton with steel rear fenders, my question is... they look like a fat womans thighs.. like cottage cheese, with real small dents anddings all over the tops of them, any idea how to get all that mess straightened out on them without alot of bondo?.....would an english wheel work? there is no rust on them at all
An English wheel used improperly in this scenario may add stretch to the equation. Given the dings and dents you already have, the panel is already stretched at each of these spots, and will need shrinking more than anything. You can use an English wheel to wash over the walnuts, and can be used effectively, but you will need to have minimal pressure and the anvil closely matched to the underside of the panel to lessen any chance of changing the shape. This may involve many changeouts to different radius anvils.
I would suggest checking Amazon or other sources for "The Key to Metal Bumping" to learn off-dolly hammer work. It's a very old book, but a very good resource. A good online source is available via Uncle, here:
....and here on sandblast damage (My theory on measuring was an inaccurate assumption, so be sure to read this one in entirety for the "true story".... This thread also shows good use of a stud puller with shrinking tip.
If it was just a couple spots, which it sounds like it isn't. You could always shrink them by using a gas welding tip and dolly and hammer to shrink them.
I've seen this before when guys have dropped loads of rock into a truck bed. It's worse to fix than hail damage. X2 whitelightnings comment. I wish you patience and luck.
Have you ever noticed that anyone driving slower than you is an idiot and anyone driving faster than you is a maniac? - George Carlin
It may smooth things, but given dents and dings, the fenders are stretched as it is. Planishing will add more stretch, unless you have some fancy non-metallic dies.. and easy on the pressure..
They do make what they call shrinking disks anymore. I don't really understand how they work, never used one. The disk is sort of "corrugated" around the edge. Another thing they sell is a body hammer with a head on it that "turns" when you strike the metal. It has like a spiral pattern on the face of it. Never used one of those either, so don't know how well it would work either.
I have seen videos on YouTube of the use of a shrinking disc on a big electric grinder on an AD fender. He said he can work a fender as bad as what yours sounds like to the point that NO filler was required. Its worth a watch.
1952 5-window - return to "as built" condition | 1950 3100 with a 235 and a T-5 transmission
The shrinking disc is used to uniformly heat up a large area by friction, which is then water quenched to shrink it. Since this does not generate a lot of heat like a torch does, it requires that you repeat it many times to take the high spots down. But it does work. To shrink a large area down that has many dings using the off dolly hammer technique requires a 'LOT' of practice. One phase of the hammer and dolly technique is using a body file to dress a few thousands off the high spots. This always bothered me because it's easy to thin down the material in the area the you are working unless you are very patient with the hammer and dolly end of it. The shrinking disc does not require that you remove any material so the panel is still of uniform thickness when you finish working it.
Denny Graham Knee deep in snow north of Sandwich, IL
Hoozat....You have a lot of professionals here, Caso, MP&C, MartinSr and Sevtchevelle all with a wealth of knowledge and experience and some with videos or Youtubes. A search will bring many hours enjoyment and learning. They have all been a help to me and I enjoy bodywork and been putzing with vehicles for over 40 plus years. Pictures help. Bolters listen and help and will tell you hands on is the best teacher. Have fun and good luck Dan
Yep, I agree. Wait, my ego got the best of me there Mick, let me back up. Yes it turned out pretty good, only problem is it took me a month to get it looking that way without using a can of Bondo to smooth things over. I hadn't done any of that hammer and dolly work for many decades so that rear fender served as a refresher in panel beating that me pop taught had me over 50 years ago. Just a few dabs of plastic filler near the bottom edges which needed some tears welded shut. A little bit of lead also at the toe after welding, where It mounts to the running board and was torn. In an area like that where there is more stress I like to use lead, just because I feel that the molecular bond makes for a stronger interface of the filler and parent metal. DG
Denny, nice repair on the rear fender, I think using the shrinking disc works best on a crowned panel such as that fender to allow good access to the high spots, and your efforts show how well it works.
On the body file (vixen) you referred to, I would suggest to ease up on the pressure. You want to glide across the panel enough to remove the guide coat and show the high spots. It's not about removing metal.
Not into giving lessons like you are Robert, just trying to show the original poster hozat that with enough time and patience even an amateur can work those dings and dents out. As far as removing metal with a file, take a peak at some of Ron Covell's videos where he's removing metal from the high spots then working the metal to level it. I'd say he's pretty close to the top of the pile when you talk about modern day metal bumpers. It might only be a few thousands that he's removing but when your working with a 1/16" or less I don't want to take any at all. But as I said earlier, I don't like and I don't use a vixen file for anything other than removing some filler, be it lead or plastic that the cheese grater won't touch. If you look at the lumps and bumps on that rear fender you can see the guide coat that I used to bring out the high spots. Those I worked till they were close then used the shrinking disc to blend the whole area, no filing. I had a similar mess on a front fender where a previous mechanic had used a ballpeen hammer to ding out a dent then had tried to level it with plastic. Looked like the bottom of an egg carton when I'd removed the paint and plastic: http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/138317741 I worked this out with hammer and dolly then finished shrinking and smoothing it with the disc. http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/138317748 Again, no file, just guide coat and shooting board to highlight the hills and valleys when I got close.
I rarely use the vixen myself, mainly because of the higher crowns normally encountered, and they don't tend to match all that well across the panel consistently. I'd rather use a flexible sander that conforms better, and as you suggest, less chance of metal removal. I agree that when you hit the metal, it's time to stop and do a bit more bumping or shrinking. I had read the pressure applied deal as a response on one of the metal shaping sites where someone raised concern of loss of panel thickness. IMO the vixen should not be used until the panel is to a state that the defects are difficult to see or feel, so unless you are looking for pure metal finishing with no filler, most can get by without it, exactly as you have shown. I rarely use the method myself, just thought I'd pass it along as food for thought if someone may want to try it.
On the giving lessons topic, your rear fender would have been a good video candidate for the shrinking disc, and your results would make anyone proud.. The few videos that I have done I try to keep less than 3-5 minutes, mainly due to file size before I convert the video. I can see a disc shrinking tutorial exceeding that unless one only focuses on a couple spots or extensively uses video editing. I seem to have better luck with hammers than trying to edit videos.
Denny, Great work! You have been blessed with talent. I enjoyed looking at the photo's thanks for posting. What material did you use to make your anti-squeak pieces? Have a great day. Harold
30# roofing paper Harold, same thing that the vendors are going to be selling you.
There are several videos of the shrinking disc in use that were posted by the guys that make and sell them. I've bought several from different guys and if I remember correctly they all had a video on the use of them. One that I bought was not made very straight and it wanted to hop all over the panel but he sent me another that was ok.
Here's one of those videos that show the disc for those that have never seen it used:
