Thanks. Mtneermike. I should have mentioned that I'm trying to drain it as part of removing the engine for rebuild so all the components have been removed. I spent a fair amount of time with a hanger today. Im guessing i should be able to free some of it up by sticking the hanger through the freeze plug but don't know what's between the freeze plug and drain or where to aim the end of the hanger. Maybe i should just pull the engine and watch it drain out the freeze plug all over my garage while the mrs is offsite?