Thanks Bill and Marty. Looks like I will have to take the pan off with the grill attached Bill - There is less than a 1/2 inch between the back of the pan and the radiator brace and the angle makes it impossible to get anything on the bolts soooo -- more dissection than I hoped for. I will plan to grind the rivets when I finally get this thing out Marty. I have been using a local (within 60 miles) chrome shop and they do good work and have been most reasonable. I hear they are a little slow now so work like this I'm sure will at least be some help. I hear a lot of their commercial work has really slowed down. No surprise. Thanks again Bill and Marty for the help - I'm going under the truck again now, doubt I'll get it all done tonight - but it's nice to know you guys are out there when I get in trouble - which is frequent - learning is a pleasure ---Dale