The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline 1957ish 3-Speed OD Trans Rebuild Starting - Tips?

Getting ready to tear into the front half of the transmission that was on my 57 3100 when I bought it. I have great pics from the manual that walks you through the repair of the overdrive section, but the service manual is a bit sparse on tips and tricks for the leading half.

I still have the adapter plate in place while I check with you fine folks to get your recommendations, tips, tricks, and "I wish I woulda's." I think I can do this, though I have minimal mechanical skills.

I have already looked at the tailshaft bushing and found it scratched up, so got the bushing for that. Here's what else I found that needs addressed:

-The 1-R slider gear has a good number of teeth rounded and some that are nearly halfway gone. Got a replacement for that.

-The countershaft assembly middle gear set was chewed up, nicely matching the damage to the 1-R slider gear. I sourced a NOS part that set me back $150. Ouch.

The sm319 rebuild kit I bought seems to have everything I need, but not everything seems to match up to what I've pulled so far. For instance, the access hole plug at the top of the transmission is about 1-1/4 inches. The one in the kit is about 3/4 or one inch. I bought a 1-1/4 inch freeze plug that I think will work for this, but wonder what else I will find. I haven't disassembled the 3-speed section yet, so will report more anomalies as I find them.

Do you use permatex on the paper gaskets?

In researching here, I have found that folks sometimes have issues getting the front bearing out. Any tips on this?

Anyone do a comprehensive photo walk-through of the entire procedure? Would love to see it!

Here's the transmission on the bench:

And here are the internals.

Thanks in advance for the tips.

Jim

I did one a couple years ago but didn't take pictures I have forgotten what all I ran into but I remember the plug you mentioned.

When you get to the OD end, use a rubberband like comes on broccoli to hold the rollers in place. You can leave it in the tranny.

If you don't have a rubber band handy, the rollers can also be held in place with some heavy grease, like Lubriplate. Either way will work just fine, but using the grease/Lubriplate method is a little messy.

Thanks guys,

I am already through the OD end. Got that. Took lots of pics as I went through. And have the little booklet that shows you how to rebuild that part.

My question was on the rebuild of the 3-speed section itself. Any tips and tricks for that?

Jim

Brad,

- Do you have the rebuild kit for the transmission?

- Your input shaft bearing could be good-to-go but I have always replaced.

- 2-3 gear drum has a synchro, check condition, replace as necessary

- note spacers on either sides of shafts, take pictures and replace

- Remember reverse idler gear is LAST in, tempting to skip a step and put it in before the main shaft but you'll need the room

- Did you buy a 16 oz tub of the green transmission installation grease? Worth it's weight in gold, best $7 I ever spent.

Lastly (for now), take your time, if YOU feel a part is too worn, find one and replace. My 'old Muncie rebuild' lasted 65 K miles until a catastrophic failure that had nothing to do with my build.

Keep the challenges coming, you can do it and it's going to feel great.

Cosmo

Thanks Cosmo!

In answer to your questions:

- Do you have the rebuild kit for the transmission?
Yes. That was how I knew the plug was the wrong size. Here's the kit that I ordered (Before our planned Homecoming gig). I assume the 319 rebuild kit covers the main case and the OD because there are three bearings that seem to match those in the case. I did think it odd that the planetary gear large roller bearings were not in the kit . Is that normal? And these are the bearings that came in my kit.

- 2-3 gear drum has a synchro, check condition, replace as necessary
What does a 'synchro' look like? Is it a brass star-washer looking thing (like with the 4-speeds), or some bearing-looking thing? Not clear from the manual. And, is there a difference from a synchro drum? My kit has some copper washers that are odd shaped. Are those thrust washers or??

- Did you buy a 16 oz tub of the green transmission installation grease? Worth it's weight in gold, best $7 I ever spent.
I looked all over for trans assembly lube. All the parts stores but NAPA looked at me like I had two heads. NAPA guy gave me a large tube of something called "read and sticky" by Lucas that says its an assembly lube. Will send a pic later.

I will definitely take my time. Now have over $400 invested in restoring this thing to health. Not going to risk that. Can't afford to!

Thanks for the help. Keep the tips coming. I will document progress here. Oh, and you said you had a commercial source for parts?

Jim

Fun filled afternoon performing complete teardown. It was fun! I really enjoyed it.

Found MANY metal shavings. Happy cleaning!!!!!

That's the main case, right? Since the trans. oil is shared with the OD, the shavings could have migrated from the OD. Is this the situation, or is there damage in and about the main 3 speed case?

Cosmo,

The shavings were worse in the OD housing than they were in the main case. Main case had a lot of very fine shavings that were mostly contained in the sump below the splash plate. The OD side was a different story. Lots of flakes about 1/8 to 3/16 in size and flat. Mostly from the shaved pinion cage assembly.

When whatever caused the lockup broke the staked dowel holding one of the pinion gears, it also jammed the cage and bent that pretty bad, as well as spinning the output shaft, causing this. I am not sure, but the damage to the shaft does not look that bad. I intend to try to clean it up a bit with a file and make sure the cage assembly slides freely without any diagonal movement on the shaft. Or then again, I may just go see Bruce, who has a NOS output shaft on his site right now. What's another $70, right? But, I will replace the cage with one I sourced from Obsolete Chevy.

As for the main case (and the reason for this thread), the innards show 56 years worth of wear. The first and reverse slider gear is pretty worn and the middle gear of the countergear cluster has a few good chunks out of it. Replacing both of those.

Here's the idler gear shaft lock pin that we couldn't find and that wasn't described in the manual...lots of fun with that part of the day.

But speaking of which, SWEET helped me pull this thing apart and we're going to have a blast putting it back together. That's what it's all about! A perfect way to spend a fall Monday off of work. Strange, though, SWEET seemed to disappear right when it came time to start cleaning all the parts...

At any rate, the input and main shafts showed no signs of wear from the bearings and the needle bearings on the main shaft looked to be in pristine condition. All good signs.

Only question I have right now has to do with the synchro drum. I don't know what the brass-looking fittings (that look like the 'dentil moulding' end of a commutator) look like when new, so nothing to compare mine to yet. Need to send up a picture of those parts as well.

I did replace the very worn output shaft bushing with a new one. MUCH less sloppy on the yoke.

Well, best get to cleaning.

Jim

Sir: Here is a commercial source I used to buy the sychronized bands to fix a 3 speed tranny that was stuck in 1st gear. www.drivetrainpartslasvegas.com

I have not had a problem since fixing my old green trucks tranny back in Feb/Mar 2012.

Good luck Jim. V/R, Nick Cavallaro, Bel Air, MD

Nick,

Got a picture of what those bands look like? Mine is a (probable) Muncie, 1957-ish, 3-speed non-synchro first, R10 OD. I have a "synchro drum" that slides on the main, with brass-looking tapered ends that fit the synchros rings on either end.

assembly

Front end

Back end



That sound like what you are talking about?

Jim

Sir, I sent you an e-mail where I show a the keys and springs which I replaced. Thanks Jim. V/R, Nick

Fourbrads,
Your picture shows that you disassembled the syncro clutch by removing the rings as the shop manual shows but you can usually determine the wear visually or by rocking the rings in place.
To the best of my knowledge the syncro rings are not available separately from the drum. You will also find them to be difficult to reassemble. One of the key components to look for wear in the rings are the large lug(s) where they engage onto the energizer spring on the clutch gear or second gear. If you have wear on the lugs and considerable "wobble" between the rings and the brass cone you need a new syncro clutch assy. Also check for wear on the raised portion of the syncro clutch where the shift fork rides, if it has considerable wear in that location it is over for the assembly. It will likely fall out of 3rd gear even with a new shift fork.
Fred
I went back and looked at your original pictures. The shifter portion of the syncro drum looks OK.

Thanks Fred,

And I checked for wobble with the synchro rings and found none. That either means I am okay, or the brass part is worn down so much that it fits perfectly. There are a few divots in the upper (non-wear) portion of the rear synchro ring. Looks like it took a hit from one of the gears at some point.

I did see a set of NOS synchro rings on eBay, but the drum seems scarce. I am hoping that I don't need it. Already up to about $500 on this rebuild. Does the brass part come loose from the rest of the drum or is it one integral piece?

I appreciate your input.

Jim

Spent most of today cleaning parts while the flooring guys worked in my house.

Pressed in the shiny new output shaft bushing on my press.

Cleaned the case and governor in prep for paint and found some casting marks. With these, can anyone positively provide a date for my trans? I am only guessing on its age and intended use. The pictures match most of the 55-57 shop manual.

End stamp
Side mark near idler shaft retaining pin
Governor stamp
Regular markings at base

And, for those of your tracking the OD side, here's a shot of my damaged pinion cage. It is out-of-round and cut up from being jammed at some point.

I've ordered a new cage.

So, year and purpose anyone?

Jim

Going to guess, date casting as July 28,1955

It's a 55. After 55 they just used one number for the date code. IE: A126 = Jan 12 1956. Anaheim Gear here in So Cal was rebuilding syncros a couple of years ago so they may have some parts. But, from what I see and what you have indicated about the condition, put it back together and use it. The cage is one wear area, also check the roller clutch cam for divots on the contact surfaces. This OD trans was used through 1965. Solenoids, governors, and many internal BW components were common to Fords, Ramblers, Studebakers, and others. It's not unusual to find mix & match parts.
Fred

So, looking at post above, can anyone tell me if I have excessive wear on my synchro drum/clutch assembly? Other than rocking the synchro rings, is there some other way to check?

Thanks,

Jim

Two steps forward...

I painted the case, so everything looks purdy....

Which is also something I could do while waiting for parts. Also decided to double check the tooth count and diameters of the NOS countergear that I bought locally. You guessed it; the forward gear is not the same diameter. Same tooth count, which is what I was looking for when I jumped on this one. Live and learn. The part was $150 from a local guy who also does a lot of business on eBay. So he will likely take it back. Pretty sure he doesn't have a correct one though, so it's back to searching for me. Fred and I are working together offline to come up with a strategy to get the right parts. Suggestions welcome. Here's the specs of what I have for my old countergear:

Front. 27 teeth. 3.70 inches
Mid: 14 teeth. 2.22 inches
Rear. 22 teeth. 3.00 inches

Measurements were best I could do with my small plastic caliper.

Working on my 'patience' virtue now.

Back to the OD end while waiting on parts for the main case.

Received a couple of new parts in the mail. The first was the NOS cage for the freewheel clutch cam. Started to swap that out and discovered that I had three ramps on the cam that are pitted. Fred (rfs56trk) told me that those would eventually lock things up and damage the OD, so it's back to the parts search for me. Already posted an ad for an OD clutch cam.

The second part that came in was the lockout rail that pulls the OD pinion gear assembly on and off the output shaft when the solenoid allows it. Shown here in my left hand as it is engaged with the pinion assembly.

Here are the new rail and old rail side-by-side. You can clearly see the 'step' that has been worn into the old one by use (or misuse) or just old age.

Rail 1
Rail 2

That part was $49 on eBay. Just add it to the parts bill, right? It's only money.

This thing better drive the truck for me when it's done. It's gonna owe me!

Jim

Well,

Still have parts on order. One for the OD end and another for the front end. At the front, I decided to replace my synchro rings because I think the two lugs that engage with the main shaft helical gear are worn out. You can see that they are worn to the point that they have developed a 'step' in them in this photo. This may be part of why my trans popped out of third a few times.

I was waiting to start reassembly for everything to come in, but changed my mind. I am finding that, as I start to tinker with the parts in prep for reassembly, I am finding their flaws. So, I installed the idler gear and countershaft gear today. The idler has one set of teeth that is chamfered at the forward edge (which must go to the rear of the case), so I had to watch that as I installed it.

The idler went in without a hitch. SWEET measured the wear on the idler shaft bushings with my feeler gauge set and found them within the .002" tolerance, so we're good to go there. I installed the thrust washers and honestly expected more trouble from it than I got. New idler shaft pin, and we were good. Managed to get everything in with the help of this stuff. It holds things really well and adds some wear resistance until the oil gets in and around things. Installed a new front idler hole plug. Even though the new one and the old one were marked with the same size, the new one was sloppy in the hole. I squished it a bit in my vise and it tightened up enough to install with confidence.

The countershaft was installed with the 25 new roller bearings fore and aft. I had some initial confusion because the shop manual said to put in the countershaft with the "flat" installed horizontal, and at the bottom of the case. This was apparently critical, because it was in bold. Now, being new to mechanical stuff, my first thought was 'I wonder which 'flat' part they mean? The flat raised area, or the flat depressed area.' Fortunately, I had taken good pictures as I disassembled this thing with SWEET, and could tell that I had installed it wrong way up AND backwards. No picture of this in the manual. Reading farther in the manual, I found out that if you have an OD unit, you need to install the 'flat' the opposite way up. Here's how it looks when assembled (looking from the rear). I think I have the 'flat' thing figured out, because the adapter plate for the OD traps the countershaft so it won't spin in the case. You can see an impression of the end of the shaft in the adapter plate.

So, onto pressing on the new bearing onto the main shaft and installing the thrust washer onto the shaft, sandwiched between the bearing and the second gear cluster. In my trans parts kit, the new thrust washer (with its oil slots) was about half the thickness of my original ( here too). Fortunately, I picked up a NOS small parts kit from a local guy and got the right thickness thrust washer. I am not sure if this was on purpose, because it's better for the trans, or if it's just cheap engineering. But I preferred the feel of the NOS washer, so I went with that. Had more confusion deciding whether the dang thing faced fore or aft since it only has slots on one side, but again, had a picture of my disassembly to guide me. Fore it is. Plus, that lined up nicely with a channel in the main shaft that I think feeds the oil to the slots. Would have been nice if the manual explained this though. One thing I did notice was that my original bearing came off the shaft with hand pressure, but I had to press on the new one (as the manual says). Guess my old one was slipping a bit. And after I assembled the shaft, it was clear that if I had used the new skinnier thrust washer, I would have had about 1/16th of an inch of slop in the assembly.

Installed the main shaft onto the adapter plate with the new snap ring. No problems there. Here's the assembly.

When I get my new synchro drum rings, I'll do a side-by-side picture of the old and new and put it up here.

Even though I had not intended putting this thing together this weekend, I really enjoyed the process. The more I tinker with the parts, move them around to fit them up and see how they mesh, the more confident I feel about working on it.

More to follow...

Jim

Nice write-up Jim, many will benefit from your experience.

Cosmo

Good job Jim, I wouldn't been able to do any thing like that.

Brian

Nonsense Brian,

I am the least mechanical guy on this site. I just needed people like COSMO to tell me to dive in. He said it was scary at first, but then empowering. And he was right. Plus, working on the 3-speed is giving me confidence I can handle the overdrive part.

If you're waiting to find a guy near you to do one of these, like I was, don't. You can easily handle this.

Best,

Jim

Okay,

Here are the new synchro rings that just arrived via the magic of eBay...

Side by side

In retrospect, my rings might not be too bad, but it doesn't seem to take much wear to cause these things to slip out of third.

We shall see.

Jim

If its a Borg R10 OD, you can get all the documentation you need and then some on my site. Good luck! Its something I have to tackle one of these days. I have two of them and they are really the a nice solution.

Thanks Deve,

Have to admit, I have already made great use of your site for background info and to download the manuals for repair and operation. Terrific resource! And much appreciated.

Will try to document the BW R10 (it's a K-1) rebuild as I go, though I know there are other walk-throughs out there. I did this one because I had not seen a walk-through of the 3-speed AND the OD. Hope it helps someone out there like me.

Jim

The Saga continues...

Decided to mate up the input/clutch shaft and rest of the main case today. The input shaft bearing was pressed on with little fanfare. Here's a tool I made out of a conduit strap to keep the pressure on the inner race instead of the bearing area.

I installed the new synchro rings into the synchro clutch drum assembly and placed it into the case. Remembered the first and reverse slider gear. Well, not right away, but eventually...

With the main shaft installed in the adapter plate, I lined up the lugs in the rear synchro ring with the channels in the main shaft helical gear and everything pulled up tight. I remembered to put the new gasket (with non-hardening permatex) between the adapter plate and the case.

Then it was onto putting the new roller bearings into the case end of the input/clutch shaft. Here are the first set of 14 fat roller bearings installed. I was worried this would be a bugger, but they went in really easy with the "Red and Tacky" stuff I have been using. Also, the shop manual had really good instructions this time, with nothing left out. Use the shop manual for this process. It helped me remember some things (like gaskets).

Next went the small inside diameter thrust washer, followed by the larger one, followed by the 24 thinner roller bearings. More on this later. Then the clutch shaft was mated to the front of the main shaft with zero problems. It's like they were meant to work this way...

New gasket on the input/clutch shaft and we were in business. The manual says it's important to line up the lugs in the forward synchro ring with the flats on the input shaft gear. But honestly, I could not get it to go together any other way.

Now comes a question for you gurus on these transmissions: My input shaft main bearing slid into the hole in the main case with hand pressure. I did not have to use a brass drift as the instructions say. I suppose that means that the diameter of my case hole may be worn a bit. I have no slop in the connection, but worry that I may have issues later. Is this something (a spun bearing) I need to worry about?

And, here's a nice bonus: I had one more thin roller bearing on my bench after assembly. I looked at this little monster and doubt started niggling at me. I DID put 24 in, right? I mean, they seemed tight, but then again...Yep...took it all apart and rechecked to be sure. I had zero room to add another roller. Must have gotten an extra in the kit for good measure. I hope. Manual calls for 24.

All the gears seem to mesh okay. Some lash between the idler gears and the countershaft, but there's no oil in the system yet. And, some of the clacking I am hearing right now is probably due to the synchro clutch being able to slide back and forth without being confined by the side cover forks. Anyone have a test procedure for this stage? To make sure everything is meshing as it should?

Expecting the last OD piece in this week. So next update is for that end.

Jim

Jim

I count 24 roller bearings too. Must had an extra.

Gotta love these fancy phones!!!

Thanks,

Glad you snapped a few too. So far, it's the pictures we took that are saving me!

Jim

All the gears seem to mesh okay. Some lash between the idler gears and the countershaft, but there's no oil in the system yet. And, some of the clacking I am hearing right now is probably due to the synchro clutch being able to slide back and forth without being confined by the side cover forks. Anyone have a test procedure for this stage? To make sure everything is meshing as it should?


You've in all likelihood put your shift cover on by now and gone through the gears by turning the input shaft by hand. You are getting close!

Managed to reassemble the OD end this weekend. It was amazingly therapeutic (to borrow a term from Mr. Milliman).

Started by assembling the tailshaft and ring gear assembly to the Borg Warner OD housing. This went on with a pair of snap ring pliers and holding my mouth just right...

The gasket (thank you shop manual) went on with permatex non-hardening. Followed by the control plate and blocker ring...then the control plate retainer...followed by the snap ring for the retainer.

Then the sun gear...and planetary gear assembly...

The manual calls for a brass hammer to drive the U-clips back onto the planetary gear assembly and the cam clutch assembly. When I hit it with a hammer, it just slid around. I used a small hand clamp and this did the trick. No muss, no fuss.

With the U clips installed, it was onto the cam roller assembly (seen hgere all slathered with assembly lube). Must admit that all the previous rebuild walk-throughs I saw on the OD were helpful here. I could not get the tail housing onto the assembly because the roller bearings were on the high end of the cam and the spring-loaded cage assembly was keeping me from rolling them to the low side. I finally gave in and tried the red and sticky stuff and it actually held the cam roller assembly in the low cam position long enough for me to slide the tail housing on (which has the bearing surface of the cam roller bearings machined into it). Plus one for Deve's website.

I made sure I set the lockout rail spring (the end of which is seen here in the upper small hole of the tail housing) into to area between the bosses in the tail housing before proceeding. With the cam sufficiently slopped with heavy grease, all fell into place and we were in business.

Then the speedo gear assembly...followed by the OD Solenoid, which I tested here...then the governor switch, which I also tested using the procedure supplied by rfs56trk in a previous post.

All-in-all, with the picture-taking and fussing, it took about an hour to reassemble with moderate care.

I added the side cover (sans gasket) to test the operation of the standard transmission and confirmed that this end of the lockout rail shaft feature knocks the OD lockout lever mechanically to the "locked out" position when engaged by the reverse lever. So, the reverse slider gear lever travel kicks the OD out to prevent it from damaging itself when reverse is engaged. Cool.

Have to replace the speedo gear when the new one comes in from Classic Chevy. Not much point in returning the 60-year-old plastic one to it.

Onto the electricals next.

Jim

Speedo gear came in last night and I had a few minutes today to install it.

Of course, new surprises. The new gear and the old were of different lengths. Not sure why. The tooth count and pitch seem to match. The new one goes into the case okay, it just sticks out the cable end longer than the old.

Will I have any issues using this one? I installed the speedo cable onto it and it turns well enough.

Did I get the wrong gear from Classic Chevy Parts?

Jim

Well,

The trans is back in the truck. My son was home for the Christmas break, so I let him do the bench-press part while I bolted it up. Got too dark and cold, so I will get to the shift links tomorrow.

Plan is to run it in locked out mode until the electrical is ready. That is waiting on the harness from Jim Carter. I have tested all the electrical components and, though they are old, they seem to work. We shall see.

More to follow...

Jim

Hope it works as planned....

Thanks for sharing your rebuild process, the pictures really help. You should write a tech tip when you get done.
Thanks
Don

Thanks Jr.

If you hear a grinding noise from over Bowling Green way, you'll know what happened!

And, Don, good idea on the tech tip. Not sure I'm qualified after one rebuild, but if you think it will help someone...

Best,

Jim

Jim,
According to your pictures the rear housing is from a 58 up OD as it has the rear mount pad. It uses the short spedo gear. The earlier BW housings used a longer gear and adapter. Also the upper case normally uses a 1 1/2" flat expansion plug. Good job on the pictures and the write up.
Fred

Thanks Fred,

Took the day today to get everything reconnected and prepped for a test run. This really took a long time, since I had to rework the linkages to get everything back into alignment.

Did I mention how slow 90-weight oil runs on a cold December morning? Here's my semi-auto tool for loading in the new oil. I filled the funnel and did other things while I waited for the gear oil to drop into the trans. Worked pretty good.

And this is an ode to my ever-worse memory (so I wouldn't drive off without filling the transmission up).

After everything was buttoned up, the lockout cable connected (which took about an hour to figure out how and where to run the cable so that it didn't catch on things), I replaced the trans cover and took the truck on a nice long run.

Mixed results. Trans shifted much smoother, with a more positive throw on the shifter. First sounded quieter, and second sounded about the same. No crunching, no grinding (except when I downshifted from second to first, which was the same behavior it had before).

However, on long steady throttle pressure at around 60 mph, it popped out of third gear. I was shooting this video at the time and you can see in the lower part of the frame the gear shift lever pop up. Please pardon my reaction of setting the phone down, but needed both hands at the time. Nothing violent, but it definitely popped out of third. Now, Fred, remember how you told me to fix that by adding a snap ring behind the clutch gear, and how I didn't do that because I did not have the right tools to get the new gear pressed off the shaft without damaging it? All I can say is 'live and learn.'

So, basically, the transmission is behaving pretty much as it did before the rebuild, but I have confidence in the new gears and bearings. At high rpms, I will likely have to watch for it popping out of third, which may mean replacing the synchro drum in the future and adding that snap ring. Only positive there is that I know I can handle the work now.

I am also hopeful that my new OD parts will make the high rpms less of an issue as I return it to functionality. The new harness came in this afternoon, so I will be working on that in the next week. After I fabricate a tab for the accelerator linkage and a bracket for the stepdown switch.

As for the tech tip, think I'll let someone else write one. Not sure that I have proved anything by doing this rebuild except that I can probably do it again in the future.

Electrical update sometime soon.

Anyone got a step-down bracket and linkage rod they want to send me?

Jim

You mention 90 weight oil. I hope you didn't put hypoid gear oil in it. Somewhere in the documentation on Deve's site it tells not to.