The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts Firestone RH-5

Hello all. New to the forum. Just bought a 1960 C60 that was about to get disassembled for parts. The truck only has 29,000 original miles, and I've always wanted to have on of these medium duties in my collections, so I decided to save this one.

I have read for many hours on the "widow maker" RH-5. It appears the consensus is to not use them at all.

Here is my question:

Is there any way to disassemble and inspect these rims to see if they "might" be re-used, or are they just a plain bad idea period. From what I've read, I'm a little nervous about keeping them. The truck could use some rubber, and I know the 22.5 rubber is more readily available. I also know the replacement wheel for this truck is discontinued by ACCURIDE. Wheels Now Inc. still produces them, but at like $335 a copy...yikes!.

I like to keep things original, but not at the cost of safety. Is it even worth breaking these things down to look at them? If they aren't all rusty and nasty on the inside, are the still unsafe?

I'm new to the big trucks, but I already love this one so I want to get it on the road. I'm just a little bummed that the wheels are so pricey, and good used ones seem to be very elusive.

Thanks for your advice in advance.

Jonathon

Welcome to the world of big trucks. I wouldn't recommend messing with he rh5's. You can do some searching and find some 3 piece wheels that are serviceable and won't cost you an arm and leg.

I am looking for a set in the meantime while I learn more about the RH-5.

Would like to find a set a single piece of 22.5's, but from what I can tell, so would a lot of other folks working on restoring one of these big trucks.

Thanks for the welcome and the reply.

Jonathon

Welcome to the Stovebolt

I agree with Don, the RH-5's were outlawed many years ago for safety reasons so why take the risk. They have been known to explode even while airing up a low pressure tire!!!

If you have 6-lug wheels, head down to your local big truck junk yard and start looking at the old school busses for 22.5 rims. They are not that hard to find.

Mike B

The '51 that I just picked up today has several RH5s with it. I'm not sure how many just yet, but I know the two on the front are for sure. I got the 6 wheels that were on it plus 7 spares that were on another truck - so 13 wheels and tires total. Most of them are 3 piece wheels but I do know I have at least 3 or 4 RH5s. The problem is that all the 3 piece wheels are too wide to fit on the front axle...they rub on the steering knuckle.

Edit: Mine are 10-lug.

Oh and btw - what part of Texas are you in?

My wheels are 10 Lug (8-3/4 bolt pattern)with 6-1/4 center pilot hole.

I will keep looking for wheels.

I am in central Texas.

Jonathon

How many wheels do you think you're going to need? All of them?

I haven't evaluated all of my wheels yet, but I will most definitely have some spares. I have 13, I only really need to have 7.

The truck is up north and I haven't even seen it for myself yet, but my brother sent me pictures of the wheels. Looks like I'll need 6 or 7 with a spare. All mine appear to be the RH-5.

I have the same situation and I have just bought a deal on 6, like new 8.25x20 tires,tubes and liners. Mine are the 6 lug wheels.
I too have read the tech tips and all the bad stuff about the Firestone RH 5* wheels. But I have also read and talked to people who say use them.
Think about it: They must have put millions of those on the road over a span of many years. I don't know when they stopped making them, but every truck I have looked at from 1950's to 1966 have them, even F**rds, don't know about Dodge.
When I was a teenager I saw a man get the top half of his head cut off by a lock ring that flew off while he was airing up the tire. So, really it seems any 2pc. or 3pc. wheel has the same potential. I think it takes someone who knows what their doing to change them safely. Such as chains or a cage to air them up in. Anyway, since I have already bought tires, I have found a man with experience with the RH 5* and he is going to mount my "new" tires for me.

^^^ I tend to agree with your philosophy. If you take those wheels apart and they're still in good shape then there's probably no reason why they wouldn't work just fine as long as they were mounted up by someone who knows what they're doing. We've all heard the horror stories about men being killed by truck tires - and I don't think that any of em share the same rim as the culprit. The truth is that ANY tire/wheel combination is a potential bomb.

Belay my last statement. After I posted that I decided to do a google search and do some reading about the RH-5 wheels. I now believe that anyone who would willingly utilize these wheels - having prior knowledge of their dangers - is just foolish. The Firestone RH-5 wheel design is responsible for more injuries and deaths than all the other mult-piece wheel designs COMBINED. I think when I get ready to mess with this old truck that I have that has some of these wheels on it that I will remove them and send them to the scrap yard with my next load.

Mechanics 58, I also decieded to do some more research on Google. WOW! You can get more info. than you can absorb. One post with photos, shows some different RH rims. The RH-5 was supposedly to be a heavy duty improvement over the others.`
It also says that THE SPLIT RIM is one that is split across the rim width, from bead to bead---not split around the circumference like the Firestone RH-5*. Like we said, all are dangerous and should be done by a pro. I even found a site warning about mixing lock rings, said to put them back on the wheel they came off of. Since I cannot afford buying 2 sets of tires & wheels,think I m gonna go with mine.

Very important that the lock rings are the correct ones for that particular wheel,some are made with a different degree of the angle of wedge used, and need to match the correct wheel,usually an experenced tire man can tell the difference,my guy will still do the R-5's but I won't have them done for a running customers truck,no one out there will work on them anymore.

The RH-5 does not have a "lock ring", it is only a two piece wheel. The front half locks together with the back half.

If you look into it you will find that no tire shop in the country will touch a Firestone RH-5 rim. The RH-5 has kill and maimed more tire shop employees that any other rim that ever existed.

Firestone quit manufacturing the RH-5 because of lawsuits and legal court battles.

I had 2 such rims on my Ford moto-tug loader. No tire store in my area would touch them...even to just let the air out and dismount the tires, so I could change the rims out to new rims with single locking ring.

Several years ago a local kid working at Les Schwab tires went out on the road for a service call...he took it upon him self to go against store policy and work on a Firestone RH-5 rim...the decision cost him his life.

Are those recommending using these rims . . . are you willing to accept the responsibility for someones life?

Go ask your tire store professional for their opinion.

Welcome to the "Bolt",Jonathon!My friend bought 6 tires for his '49 Studebaker 2-ton.I cautioned him about the potential danger of the Firestone rims,as well. (Studebaker rims are a different "animal",(5-lug,6-hole "Budds",but the rims still lock in the center. He as VERY careful,to check for stress cracks,and rust,especially in the "lock" area. When he mounted the tires,he used a skid-loader,and dropped the bucket flush,on the tire and rim. he put enough pressure on the bucket,to raise the front tires on the skid-loader (about 6").His neighbor,(who works on commercial truck tires),was jumping around like a banshee! "You're gonna kill yourself! I can't watch! After Ron mounted all 6 tires,and took it for a test drive,the neighbor quieted down,grumbled how lucky (Ron) was to be alive,and went in the house. That was 15 years ago. The tires are still holding air,and none went "Boom",YET!! I have to agree with "Old GMC Gold". I,too,have heard of three-piece rims exploding,as well as the RH5's. The MAIN factor in any truck tire installation is: SAFETY!! MAKE SURE THE TIRE/RIM IS SECURED,EITHER IN A "CAGE",OR OTHER MEANS OF RESTRAINT! DO NOT LEAVE THE TIRE(S) UN-ATTENDED!! IF YOU HEAR ANY CREAKING,or CRACKING NOISE,IMMEDIATELY DIS-CONNECT AIR AT THE COMPRESSOR- KEEP AT LEAST A 25' DISTANCE FROM THE TIRE! We'd love to hear your progress reports,on your '60 (Viking)? 60,but don't be getting a "Reverse Mohawk" from a crazy rim!! Any way you go,PLEASE check ANY RIM for stress cracks/rust issues! Hope this helps!

I gotta' chime in with the anti RH5 crowd. Had a chance to get a half dozen rims for free and checked the area truck tire places. NONE would go near'em and most quoted the same horror stories we've all heard. Me...I'm listening to'em.

I seem to have run my last post together as I know the difference between the R-5's and a 2 or 3 piece wheel,you might call the r 5 a 2 piece wheel but I've never heard of it that way,in the big truck world of 10:20's or 10:22's those are called 2 or 3 piece wheels it depends on if there is one lock ring,wheel,making that a 2 piece wheel or a lock ring,wedge and wheel that being a 3 piece set up. And as I've stated I still run a set of r-5's on our 61 GMC 2 ton and my tire guy that has been working for a local tire shop for the last 35 years will still do those for me. But on other trucks I work on for customers I won't run them a snoone else will work on them.

I removed a set of RH-5's from my truck and scrapped them. They were in decent shape. The kicker came when Grigg cut a section out of one of them to use as a training aid. I have the two pieces that show just how little steel holds those two halves together -- even on a good set. And you can see just how little deterioration or simple misalignment it takes for them to fail.

The risk analysis is fairly simple and based on extensive data:

1. They are proven to be lethal
2. No professional tire place will touch them
3. They are even illegal to run in some states

It's not a question of *if* they will fail but *when.* And who will you kill when that *when* happens. Only yourself? That would be bad enough. But what if you take out someone else in your rush to save a couple of bucks or to prove the rest us us wrong or just a bunch of nervous nellies? And what if that someone you take out is my wife, daughter or grand daughter?

Running RH-5's doesn't pass a risk analysis. But more importantly, it's irresponsible. And we need to be better than that in this hobby. If you still want to engage in this hobby.

Don't we already have enough regulations?

You want to run an antique Big Bolt? Great. Welcome to the Big League. Now put your Big Boy pants on, break out the wallet and do the right thing.

Thanks,
John

If y'all haven't seen it yet we have some decent info on wheels and options as a Tech Tip here on the Stovebolt page
http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/wheels/

And here's a cross section of an actual RH5 rim
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/96LV_PnM-bC97_4AoWK_G9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

And here's an excellent use for an RH5 wheel
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/pDx64DMDE_WJrg-ZpgH_8dMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

Grigg

My 59 GMC has rh5 wheels on it and I am not going to run them. How do you get the tires off so they can be scrapped? After reading all the post on how dangerous they are I am afraid to even let the air out of them.

Amen John, the facts are clear as you point out. We have enough bad tragedies in our society that are out of our control, all the more reason to control the things that we can take control of. Don

Hey Buggy --- Good call dude. Carefully wrap a length of chain around the tire and through the hand holes on the rims and secure it with a bolt, lock whatever before attempting to remove. That way if they separate, even explosively, the halves won't go flying. Do it on two sides of each wheel and do it before letting any air out. That's about the best approach I've heard short of paying some fool to do it.

John is correct in more states than not RH5s are illegal to run. In all states OSHA regulations prohibit shops from working on them.
If you have them on your truck do us all a favor use a core remover and remove the valve core to ensure that they are completely deflated and dispose of them.
Please even if you do not plan on saving the tires that are on the wheels. Do not dispose of them with pressure in them they are a ticking time bomb.

Once the tires are dismounted, it's a good idea to take a big drill or a torch and make the wheels totally useless for anything but scrap iron. Some idiot might scavenge them out of a scrap heap and try to re-use them.
Jerry

For those who are considering reusing the RH-5 rims, ask yourself this:

"Which family member do you want to risk maiming or killing"?

As by stated John above:

"Running RH-5's doesn't pass a risk analysis. But more importantly, it's irresponsible. And we need to be better than that in this hobby. If you still want to engage in this hobby.

You want to run an antique Big Bolt? Great. Welcome to the Big League. Now put your Big Boy pants on, break out the wallet and do the right thing"

These things (Firestone RH-5) are not worth trying to save a few bucks, or prove a point.

No one here wants to see someone hurt or killed to save a buck.

So guys please, please find another wheel...they are out there, just take some time to look.

Guys,

Thanks for all the input on the wheels.

The truck is in the shop right now getting service and brakes checked out. I would normally do this sort of thing for myself as I've been messing with old trucks for about 20 years. This is my first one above a 3/4 ton duty though. I can't do this one myself right now as it is in Michigan. I've been on active duty for over 15 years so I plan on taking leave soon and driving it from Michigan to Texas next month. I had a local trusted shop take on the task to look it over before the long trip.

I have sent warnings to the shop via email and phone about these wheels and have instructed them to handle like eggs and to NOT put any air in them.

Is there anything further I should warn them about beyond that?

Some of these posts make it sound like they could come apart at any moment. I thought the danger was only during inflation post assembly process.

Thanks!

Jonathon

John,whats your background, I may have missed it.

If this is meant for me, I do not go by John.

Guys,

When updating to 22.5 what tire size do you recommend?

I see a 9R22.5 is the same diamter as the 8.25-20.

This truck is inline-6, single speed rear, SM420. Is a 10R22.5 worth trying for extra road speed, or is that too much tire for this truck? I understand the extra load larger tires put on the drive train and braking capability.

Any advice from experience with this is appreciated.

Thanks!

What model truck and or what bolt pattern 22.5" wheels are you looking for?

If it's the 10 lug on 7.25" circle you'll only find wheels 5.25" wide, and even that is narrower than the narrowest rim recommended for a 9R22.5 tire. That said the tires will fit and the duals don't rub. That's the combo I have on my truck. You shouldn't try a 10R22.5 tire on those old narrow rims, the 9R is pushing it already.

If 6 lug Budd you have a number of wheel width choices and could use 9 or 10R22.5 tires. Then it depends on the model truck and what room you have. The newer trucks you may get away with 10R22.5, or up to 55 model the 9R22.5 would fit easier.

Grigg

I replaced the tires on both my 64 GMC 6000 and my 56 Chevy 6100 with 9.00 R 22.5s they are a little bigger than the 8.25 20s that came on the 64 and the 8.00 22.5s that came on the 56.
The new tires on the 64 maid a word of difference for that truck could not have been happier. As far as the 56 goes I do not yet know as it is not finished. I do have to say the 9.00 20s are as big as the front of the 56 can handle.

Grigg,

Truck is 1960 Chevrolet Viking C60.

Stock rims are 20 x 6.0 inch RH-5. Rubber is 8.25-20.

Single 22.5 steel wheel replacement number is 28160 (Accuride), but is discontinued.

Wheels are available from Wheels Now Inc., but due to cost, I'd rather find a good used set of 22.5s.

Wheel dimensions for the 28160 part number is:
R22.5 x 6.75W - 10 lug on 8.75 - 6.25 center pilot.

Rims are hub piloted.

I'm on about my 30th phone call. I'm searching for a set of good used 28160s.

I'd like to run the 10R22.5s for the extra road speed if it won't be too much for the engine and brake capabilities. Plus I like the look of the taller sidewall. I'd be fine with the 9R22.5 is that is what is recommended.

Thank You for all your help.

Jonathon

Old GMC Gold,I take back my statement on these RH5's,as well. Grigg ,as well as countless others,have warned about the potential dangers of these rims.My friend,Ron,is LUCKY,that all 6 wheels held together in the process. There's got to be a GOOD reason,why the truck tire shops refuse to work on them.If you can't afford different rims,PLEASE WAIT,until you save enough to REPLACE your rims.What you SPEND on different wheels,could SAVE your life,as well as your loved ones!Ron was LUCKY,when he installed his! There are plenty of 3-piece rims out there,that aren't expensive. My friend bought 6 from a farmer,since his bus had RH5's. His cost? $100.00! The farmer was happy,too! He got better than scrap price,and didn't have to worry about discarding the old tires! He's probably got 30 more! Be SAFE-do some shopping!

Sorry I had posted the I used 9.00 22.5s on my two trucks in fact they are 10.00 22.5s
JPBrecheisen: my 64 is about the same truck you have mine didn't come with RH-5s it had two pice ring tube type 20s though. I bought a new set of wheels they were Accu-rides I am sure same part number you listed sorry to hear they have since been discontinued I bought mine about 9 years ago. Anyway if you can find wheels I highly recommend the swap to the 10.00 20s I will say my truck dose have a pretty potent little small block in it but the size difference should still be beneficial with your 6.

If you could do your 64 GMC over again, you'd stick with the 9R tires? I've seen a few trucks with both 9 and 10R. Like I said, the extra road speed would be nice, but it has to be able to stop too. I don't want to get into 10Rs and it end up being too much.

Do you have photos of your 64? I'd like to see that truck.

I would prefer to gain the benefits of a radial tire.

Thanks for sharing.

Jonathon

Got it. 10R22.5s

I'll find a set of wheels at some point. Or I'll just pay the piper for new ones. Either way, I'll end up with 22.5s.

Still interested in a few snaps of that 64 if you have any.

Thanks

Jonathon

Ok. Wetwillie and anyone else, you have convinced me, I am NOT hardheaded. Just help me out now..... You said the guy had 30 more of the 3-piece wheels. Does this mean a 2- piece wheel with a ring. What do I look for? Any Pictures? Can I find some 20" wheels that I can still use the new 8.25x20 tires that I just bought on? What year and model of truck do I start looking for wheels? Here is the info. on my truck. 1958 GMC LCF Budd Wheels with piloted studs. Six hole wheels. 2 1/2 Ton. Pics. in my photobucket. Thanks to anyone that can show me what to look for.

Just chiming in here on the wheel width topic - the '51 I recently acquired came along with 7 extra wheels that I removed from a '56 model truck. I had to swap out several of the wheels in order to get road-worthy rubber on the ground. I discovered during this operation that the only wheels out of the group of 13 wheels that I had that would fit on the front axle were the RH-5 wheels. The other wheels were all too wide and contacted the steering knuckle. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe there's 4, possibly 5 different styles of wheels in the group. The RH-5s of course are the only two piece wheels with the others being 3 piece. I didn't try them ALL on the front axle, but none of the ones I did try would fit. These wheels have the small 10-lug pattern and they're 20".

Mine have 6 -lug with piloted studs. If you scroll down to the topic "Any Big Bolt Guys into Cannonballs? " by Goob. and click on his photos. The yellow truck with the side view, looks identical to mine. From the pic. I would swear those wheels look like mine and are the RH-5* wheels.
I have received plenty of advice as to why I should trash mine, but so far, NO advice on what will fit/work on the truck in a 20" wheel. Surely they made some "safe" 20" wheels?