The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop body filler

After welding in the bottom door patch panel, I used lead to fill the low spots. My question is, can I feather the little nicks with plastic filler?

Why go through the trouble to use lead and end up with bondo in the end.

As far as I know on the AD vintage, there were no stress areas with lead that required any flexing beyond what a premium body filler can do. They used lead because that was the bondo of their day.

Rage Gold or Rage Extreme altho expensive completely resolve the issue. Remember, you must do proper metal work prior to filler. Todays bondo is so much better than in the olden days. If you do it right, you wont have much filler in any case. The lows need to be worked with metal to keep the depth of the filler very shallow.

What most professional resto shops do is put a 1/8" coat of premium filler on the entire vehicle. Then with long boards and lots of hand work, sand almost all of it off. Most of the auto body technical schools suggest this method as well. If you have more than 1/8" of depth, really you need to redo the metal work.

I use long boards as long as 36 inches to really get the panels smooth over the long areas. I have never used air tools or any kind of methods other than hand work. I don't plan on going that way ever. I 'feel' my way through the process and the end result is very nice. Not that the professionals that use power equipment aren't better. They can be.

Bottom line is, they didn't have todays superior fillers in the lead days. Not to take away from the guys who believe in lead.. they do amazing work too.

Yes.

I cannot understand why anyone still uses lead. Authenticity I understand, but if you go that route, you will have to leave all the imperfections that the factory left in these work vehicles. Plastic filler is the way to go and no one will knock you for it. Not to mention the reduced health risks of plastic filler over lead.

Thanks for the tips.

I think about this a lot.. and what is your goal when it comes to keeping things original. Are you honoring the production line process? Because most of the metal including rear ends, front ends, castings all over the truck are done in sand castings and that is ONLY due to the need for efficiency of the production process. Much of the truck fit is terrible. The sand castings leave pits and imperfections in almost everything.

When I think of ORIGINAL, I completely remove the production process and imagine how a HAND MADE truck would be constructed, then take the original parts, clean them up, smooth things out, and use the best technologies of the era (sometimes a bit beyond considering the newer 235/261, Borg OD, etc) and make something the engineers of the day would be proud of if they weren't putting out a gazillion trucks per second at a factory who is naturally interested in maximizing profit.

Denny:

I fully understand and admire your approach. I tend to fall between your approach and Deve's approach. I don't grind the cast iron imperfections smooth, but I will grind of sharp/rough edges on sheet metal stampings and I will fill the tooling marks and many of the visible spot welds (such as the four in the middle of the doors (interior side), but not on the tailgate or door jambs). I also tend to smooth many of the shrinking creases on sheet metal stampings.

But, back to plastic filler. Even on your approach, I simply don't see the need or benefit in using lead. No one sees it once the metal is painted and even ultra high dollar vehicles/restorations use plastic filler which is accepted in the industry. Only heavy applications are frowned upon or applications other than minor flattening of the sheet metal or a lead substitute. Also, the factory did not do the lead work very well and if you are mimicking the lead work, you must leave the leaded seam visible as such after paint.

Regardless, anyway one choses to do things, one thing is for sure...your work is admirable.

PS: Ultimately, I will need to find a new drivers doors as I ruined mine in attempting to pull out a large dent in the skin. The metal warped and I ruin the skin trying to shrink the metal. I ended up being a "bondo" sculpter on the door with plastic filler about 3/8" thick or more in the middle. The door looks good now, but I know what is underneath. This is the stuff that is considered a no-no. But, I had not choice and simply decided I could replace the door when I felt the need or bad things happen as a result of the excessive plastic filler. ugh!

I also admire Denny's approach. Who wouldn't? I have no problems with anyone's approach, but I also understand clearly the difference between 1960's bondo and today. We don't use Lacquer or enamel paints anymore, we also don't use old cheap bondo. The entire paint process has moved on.

Calling todays bondo, BONDO is really a sacrilege. Its night and day different. My focus is in preservation meaning you don't put lacquer paint, old school bondo, inferior products on a new preservation/restoration. You correct any casting imperfections that were not intended but let go anyway due to profit over quality issues. I would never use chemical stripping EVER because the residual chemicals will eat the paint over the years. In places you cant clean the chemicals out properly, seams, etc, over time, the paint WILL deteriorate. What comes to mind is I can look at a 5 year old restoration and tell you if it was chemical stripped or sandblasted by looking at the cab rain gutters. On a chem strip, the gutters are bubbling and flaking. Every time. Its arguable of course Denny, but I have determined that #1 silica sand and lots of time removes the paint and rust completely without ANY warpage or damage whatsoever. Again, there is SAND blasting, and there is sandblasting.

I am old too Denny.. Its very easy for the old men in this conversation to be stuck in the past, or in their own proven ways be DAMNED whatever is new out there. Not that I am doing it any better than you, I am just trying to keep an open mind where new technology and better practices come in.

if you don't want to be stuck in the past, quit calling body filler [polyester putty] "bondo" or "BONDO" - Bondo is a brand name of the original filler, as different from it's original formulation as other "modern" fillers, with a range of applications

Bill

About the only advantage to lead is moisture resistance. With filler if any moister happens to come through from the backside in inaccesible areas, filler can come loose.
They use to use lead on pitted metal to seal against rust also. Clean the area by sand blasting ect... then lead over the pitted areas. Of course now they have ways of neutralizing any tiny bits of rust that might still be in a pit.

John

That's true John. It also has to do with best practices when doing any body work. First, epoxy primer, then filler, then high build urethane, then SEALER.. a often missed step, then base/clear. You absolutely insure your work will have no moisture in it if you follow the approved practices. I left sanding out at each step because I hate sanding but reluctantly do it anyway. LOL!

Would there be some reason I can't see Denny's post in this thread? Or did he delete it?

Taking a paint/body class now, and renewing my interest in this subject.

that has been known to happen at times

Bill