1959 Chev 3/4 ton, 235 with Rochester B carburetor. Lots of recent mechanical work I've done. Replaced head gasket, tune-up parts, carb rebuild. Truck ran fine after all these repairs for a good 10 miles, then died at a stoplight and wouldn't restart. I'm getting spark to the plugs, a light orange color. Took the carb back apart, everything clean. Put back together with another rebuild kit, same problem. Taking the carb off after trying to start, there was a puddle of fuel in the intake manifold below where the carb sits. When pumping the pump plunger by hand, droplets of fuel come out a tiny hole on the inside wall of the carb tunnel from the pump discharge. I didn't rebuild the pump discharge. I don't know if this is proper or not. My initial thinking is that I have a problem with the carb that is flooding the engine but I can't find anything obvious. I guess if the spark was weak enough that could be it. When I pump the throttle by hand and am looking down inside the carb, plenty of fuel is coming out and down into manifold. Maybe too much? But why? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. James
It sounds just like when I had a flooding problem. The motor would die if I let off the throttle. It would keep running at a higher throttle setting because it could clear the excess fuel. The way I would start it would be holding it to the floor and cranking it over. When it was really bad I would pinch the rubber line at the fuel filer, start it and then remove the locking pliers. I would also leave the throttle up higher to get it home. My float was hanging up inside the carb.
Jim and truckernix, Eventually I did try starting it like it flooded but to no avail. It might sputter a little in that position but that is it. I did try starting it normally a few days later, same issue. I did try starting fluid a couple times. It sputtered a little with a little more conviction but that was it. Before the rebuild, it always started with the choke, even on cold days after sitting for a week. I've never needed starting fluid. I don't see any indication that the float is hanging up and not sure how to test that with the carb bolted together. Weeks ago, shortly after I rebuilt the carb, I noticed a bad fuel leak coming from the carb. After inspection, I found foreign material under the needle valve which stopped it from closing correctly. I fixed that problem. There is no external fuel leak now. Even with that bad fuel leak, it still would run. I think this new issue may be a flooding issue. Is there anything that would cause flooding other than a stuck float after a carb rebuild? James
Plugs could be "gas fouled" from all the flooding. If you have a spare set swap them. A weak spark makes it worse.
If you don't have a spare set or a sand blast plug cleaner, try this.
put all the plugs in a can and pour a little gas in. slosh them around and pour them out on a flat rock. Light a match. when it's done burning wipe the insulator off with a clean rag (careful - hot) and put them back in and start it.
Something similar happened to me recently with my Corvair. I replaced all the ignition components, started it up and it ran great. Jump in the car for a test drive and after about 3 miles, the engine died at a stop sign. Would not restart. I assumed I was out of gas (I was on my way to fill it up). My wife brought me the gas can, added a couple gallons and the car started right up. Filled the tank and drove around some more, then same thing happened...just died at a stop sign and would not restart.
Eventually tracked it down to a BOOB (Bad Out Of Box) condenser or coil (replaced both at same time). Once one of those two components got hot, the spark went weak and engine would not run/start.
So, maybe you have a similar issue with your ignition components.
I agree 100% with all the guys above. Here is what I would do. It's time to carefully troubleshoot this thing. To trouble shoot and see if it's gas or spark, you have to wait until you are sure the carb and all the intake and chambers are DRY DRY DRY. Then try to start it with no choke and don't touch the gas pedal. Just hit the key.(I recommend each time you try starter, count to 6) If nothing, then drip a tiny bit of gas into the carb throat with something that only lets about 5 small drops, try again, then 10 drops. Notice any change? Then pump pedal once, try again, pump three times, try again. Work your way from dry, all the way to choking it, slowly increasing fuel. This "hand feed" method takes the carb completely out of the equation at first. If it never fires with this method, it's not the carb. It's spark/timing related. Spark should be white or bluish and snap an 1/8" gap like lightning. Orange does not sound right. Sometimes we get used to a starting procedure on an old carb by pumping and choking. Then when it's rebuilt/cleaned, will still do all that and flood the hell out of it. That's what you were doing and that's why all the leaking (and the stuck needle), but seems like you have settled down a little. Try the dry start and work up and see if you notice any improvement. This will identify or eliminate the carb/fuel supply. If you see that it's not gas, then Check all wiring including coil ground, timing, coil, points, condenser, rotor, cap, plug wires..... In other words, all the advice given by the other guys. If NONE of the cylinders are firing, it's probably back at the Dizzy, not plugs or plug wires. Not sure what "sputtering" means to you? Spitting thru carb or actually firing a little? Or no firing? Need to know exactly what it does at each stage of "hand feed".
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
I'm going out on a long limb here,But you have done a lot of work recently on the engine. This is an old truck with old wires,(from experience) a wire may have been hanging by a thread and broke with the vibration of driving a short distance. Don't rule anything out, could be anything. I would try to do what a thief would do and hot wire the ignition, just to see if it would start. From the positive battery terminal to the ignition coil opposite side from the wire to the dist. and see if it starts. A carb usually doesn't stop working.
Bartamos and Tommy, Thanks for your responses. Bartamos, after following your testing sequence for the carb, I became convinced it was a spark issue. It turned out to be a bad coil. 1.Testing the resistance between the positive and negative poles of the primary circuit on the coil showed no resistance. 2.Testing the resistance between the secondary circuit of the coil (where the coil wire inserts)and the positive pole of the primary circuit on the coil showed no resistance. 3.Testing the resistance between the secondary circuit of the coil and the negative pole of the primary circuit on the coil showed no resistance. At first the new coil didn't change things because I had replaced the points and condenser and I had either set my points too far apart or the primary circuit at the dizzy was grounding out from me messing with it. I think it was the point gap. I think I set it at the spark plug spec.. So, I double checked everything, including good resistance numbers from the new coil. I got spark finally. So I tried to start it and it fired right up. The spark I get when grounding the coil wire to the engine block is still an orange color, not a white hot spark. I have heavy duty Napa points and condenser, the best they had. I just have their standard coil. They have two other hotter coils for more money. I'm not sure that is necessary... any advice on that? Thanks so much guys, you've been invaluable to helping me get my truck running. I've learned a lot and am proud to have solved the problem with your help. James
An orange spark is normal, regardless of what you're being told. The only way to get that hot blue spark everybody is talking about is to go back to wire-conductor plug wires, and those are as scarce as a chicken with lips these days. If you've got resistance "wires" made of string and graphite powder like 99.9% of all wires are these days, the spark will be yellow/orange. It still does an excellent job of igniting fuel- - - -the only thing it won't do is make your neighbor's TV set do weird things due to the electromagnetic signal real wire ignition cables emit. Radio/TV suppression cable has been in general use for over 50 years and yellow sparks have burned untold millions of gallons of gasoline efficiently. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Glad you got it started. Good effort, I hate myself for saying "orange spark does not sound right". In my experience, in 1959, it can indicate a weak spark. If it runs good, it does not matter.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
