The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay 12 Volt Starter / Any Suggestions?

I am ready to make the switch possibly, well I don't know for sure. I already have a 12 volt generator and am making up my list. Does anyone know of a source for a 12 volt starter for a 216 or 261 engine? I'm trying to figure out which it is, pretty sure it is not the 235. The starter bolts through the top and bottom of the engine.
Part #'s or a substitute interchange really helps
Thanks

you don't need to change the starter, the 6V one will work fine as long as you don't abuse it ... but you do need to figure out what engine you have

Bill

Stick with the 6v starter, if you go to 12v starter you'll need to change gears on flywheel.

Big Pink,

This is an odd statement: "Does anyone know of a source for a 12 volt starter for a 216 or 261 engine? I'm trying to figure out which it is, pretty sure it is not the 235. The starter bolts through the top and bottom of the engine."

There were no original 12v starters for a 216.
All 216s are easily distinguished from all 261s.

As Bill posted, you should determine what engine you have. Post the codes on your engine and people will help you figure out what you have.

216s and early 235s are very similar in appearance. Later 235s and 261s are similar in appearance. Codes are needed to determine what head and what block you have.

low-pressure 216/235 engine codes locations
high pressure 235/261 engine codes locations

Thanks,
I have replaced battery cables, ground straps, rebuilt the starter and still am not getting enough power to get an honest crank to the engine...

I wish I could post a video to explain my problem, I just found a box in the truck of every part I have replaced so I see the previous owner had the same dilemma. I have taken contact points down to the metal and still don't have enough power to crank more than a couple times. If I hook up jumper cables to my battery and get 18 volts going at it that seems to do the trick. Feeling really perplexed and ready to just sell the whole thing.

what cha want for it..

Does anyone have an answer to this? I am going through the same thing.

And now my starter bendix gear is grinding on on the ring gear a few time before engaging. The engine turns over slow then starts. Then it runs like a champ.

What is going on?

Thanks

I've about had it with this

I will message you
http://s1298.photobucket.com/user/47stovebolt/library/?sort=3&page=1

dont give up the ship...yet

have you checked all connections, have you tested your battery,
if so take your starter off and have it checked out...

and my favorite tip... take the battery and get it checked under load.. you might have a deal cell...I thought mine was good , I was having problems with a slow drag at times, usually when it was warm.. went on for a long time, I had put in a hot shot, tested ever thing..my wife says get your battery tested, told her it was good, showed 12 volts, etc.........well it had a dead cell.. and to think I messed with this problem for a long time

I have redone everything and my battery is new I should check for a dead cell although my battery reads 6.8 with the volt meter. I left it for 6 days while on vacation and came back and there is no parasitic drain.

I see the pix of your truck, one of those big guys, IRWIPI

Did you replace the cables with 6V ones or the skinny 12V ones from the corner parts store?

I see the problem, no red cable...

just joking

http://www.speedprint.com/deves50/flywheel.php

not sure it this helps, but its pretty important that you understand this before changing the starter. I prefer to use a 6 volt starter in my restorations because no matter what engine (216,235,261) you have, the flywheel and starter (married items) work really well until you change one or the other.

Hey Big Pink. Don't give the ship. Good ol joker.

I was working on my truck and did the battery check. I found the voltage drops to 5.8 and seems to stay there when I rev the truck up to a high idol. I have no idea what that means. But I keep trying.

Stay with it. This group will get you through your problems and on the road again. Good ol Willie Nelson.

Cables replaced with BIG double ought ones! So I nailed that issue right out the door!

Block code is KEA775I75

Where do you have braided ground cables on your truck?

Hahaha I made those custom and soldered the lugs on myself, that isn't the problem. I'm losing power to the starter and it is a newer unit with the button on top that is contacted by the floor starter already being replaced.

One goes from the block to the frame, gonna redo everything with star washers in the AM

KEA is a 1952 235 engine on a 6000 series truck.

I could easily be wrong here, but the aftermarket ground straps (braided steel with end pieces that are just pressed on to the braids) would not work for a 6 volt system very reliably. Might be a good idea to solder the ends on them in the very least.

If anyone has a 6v (2 gauge or less) braided cable, please post the vendor and the part number.

That's just the problem. Carters EL-146 ground strap is advertised for 1930's to 1955 trucks. This assumes 6 volts. They are braided, but the ends are pressed on. You can actually pull the ends off by hand.

I do not know how ends are just the problem relative to proper gauge.

I do not use or buy cables that are of unknown gauge.

They could be minus 10 gauge and with pressed on ends, the crimping will only contact a very small area of the cable, causing the entire cable to be way less reliable. I recommend soldering the ends, then it makes this cable workable for 6v. I have a few of them and its what I had to do. If you can pull the ends off the cable by hand easily, it would be like not tightening the battery cable. Just push it on and be done with it? But it is the proper gauge for 6v. At least 00 equivalent, just not useable without soldering.

braided ground straps are NOT "steel", ever, they are tinned copper, and the ends are molded on before the tinning, not 'just pressed on the braids', or in the case of the battery terminal ends, they're die cast onto the cable

Tim, the 12V standard now is 4 gauge, but check the GROTE product line, or maybe some FLAPS can bring in 1/0, 2/0 or 4/0 from Ask

Bill

Years ago I bought 6v battery cables from Jim Carter. The positive cable was 4 gauge and the braided ground cable was 4 gauge.

JC now sells a "6v" positive cable that he specifies as 1 gauge - that would be fine. He does not specify the gauge of his "6v" braided ground cables.

Nonetheless, JC lists EL113 as his 6v battery ground cable/strap and the EL146 (not EL-146) as the frame to clutch housing ground cable/strap (I think this was used on both sides of the frame/clutch-housing in 1954). JC does not state the gauge of those braided cables.

The gauge might make a different in a 6v system. Of course, an 8v or 12v system would not be affected if JCs ground cable are a lighter gauge than is required.

Again, if anyone has a 6v (2 gauge or less) braided cable, please post the vendor and the part number.

Thanks, Bill, for the Grote information.

Tim's right tho.. Ive been searching the internet for awhile now and nothing 2 gauge or less. Tim, might have to go with 8v. LOL!

Seriously, if you find the right one, let us all know. I am thinking everyone is just getting the vendor ones and thinking they are correct when they are 4 gauge or more (then with pressed on ends). This would be very problematic since it might make people feel exactly the same as I do. Park your 6 volt truck on a hill. This could really be the reason why its such a problem.

JEGS sells them, and likely any tractor supply place .... I happen to be fortunate to have a place here in town that has, or can get, anything in the way of DC electrical supplies and hardware of all descriptions, they've been invaluable for my bus project

Deve, yer not paying attention, I linked 2 ga straps, and a place that has 1/0 and heavier, any of which are available where I live .... and you won't be pulling the ends off, I don't accept defective merchandise

Bill

Big Pink, About 3 weeks ago I went to start my 49 6v and just got a click, I then turned on the headlights and tried the starter again, the headlights stayed the same. ( Note the starter was starting to turn over slower and slower over the last 3 months so I thought that the battery and/or the starter were going) I then went to tap the starter lightly with the handle of a hammer and found out the battery cable at the starter was a little loose so I tapped it back and forth a few times to clean the connection and then tighten it up about 1/4 turn, it then turned the motor over like I had a new battery and starter.

and sometimes it doesn't take much for them to be lose..
I think most of us at one time or another have
had one click, get out and touch the cable some and then it will fire up........sometimes a solenoid will act the same way, tap it and be good to go...

Red, always good information and I am happy we have a source now thru Grainger for the negative battery cable, but I would also like to have the same gauge grounding strap. I don't see them there. Did I miss something?

yes you missed something, your net searching needs work all tin coated copper ground straps

Bill

So when you try to turn it over and it drains the battery, it would be a good idea to feel each connection right away. A hot spot will tell you that a problem exists.

If you haven't done it yet, substituting another starter may be useful.

So Grote doesn't list them, none of our vendors, summit racing nothing. Ill get them at Jegs. Sure hope they are not lying about the gauge and/or quality. Pressed in ends are unacceptable. The point is, its a VERY important issue because its likely why people like me, and there are gazillions of us, cant get 6 volts to be anywhere near reliable because the vendors we trust.. just go thru the list of ALL the vendors for our specific trucks are selling crap in this regard. Once you have the 2 gauge negative cable, you are 50% there. Thanks Red for all the research.. I really do appreciate it. I TRY really hard to support our specific vendors. Maybe they are listening. SAD SAD SAAAAD!!!

Grote doesn't list them?? I'd be surprised if JEGS and Grainger weren't sourcing from Grote
don't you have a parts store in your area that has catalogs?

Bill

Rural Kansas? NO. Your grainger listings doesn't have 2 gauge straps listed. Jegs seems to have them per your link. Once again, we are talking about ground straps here. Not negative cable straps. The negative line consists of: Frame to engine STRAP, then negative battery cable. So what I am looking for is the OTHER 50% of the massive 600 amp current line.. the strap that has the same ends on each end, goes from the frame to the engine. Without it, kiss the reliability of the system goodbye.

Wish Grote did.. I always like purchasing similar items in the same place.

you want lug to lug cables to handle 600 amps?? what battery and generator do you have that supplies 600 amps? even diesel starters draw less than 600 amps, your truck might take 200 max

try ASK, as I suggested above, but you better be using 4/0 for your 600 amp system

if the battery to engine ground [not battery to frame] is 2 ga or heavier, than other grounds that go from bolt to bolt, like engine to frame, and frame to cab, can be much lighter because the only really high current draw on a vehicle is the starter, which is why the preferred route for the battery ground post is straight to a starter/bellhousing bolt - the auxiliary ground straps are for accessories, gauges and lighting, which all really ground via the sheet metal

Bill