The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Thinking about an engine swap

Haven't been here in a while. I have been thinking about an engine swap for my '53 Chev 3/4 ton. I restored this a few years back and there are photos on this site. I have a rebuilt 235 with a 1 bbl and 4-speed Saginaw tranny and the stock rear end. It just doesn't have the power to get it beyond 50 mph downhill and is frustrating. As a result the darned thing sits in the garage. It has a linkage problem or something that causes it to rev way too high when I try to drive it. Also has the flat back 216 cooling fan since the 235 fan won't fit and it overheats. After I spent a lot of $ and had a 235 block reworked for it, I found out the block is actually from a '61 Biscayne and isn't a truck 235 at all. Don't know if that matters. At any rate, I've got to do something to soup it up so it is drivable. Have been thinking about a 350, but I don't know what all will be involved. Probably a new rear end to get away from the 8-lug two-piece wheels and an automatic tranny like maybe a turbo 350. If anyone out there has done something like this, I'd be interested in some ideas and what all might be involved. I wanted to keep it original except for the 12-volt conversion, but it isn't doing any good sitting in the garage and my kids don't want me to sell it either. Ideas or suggestions would be welcome.

Your rear end gears are limiting your speed, not your engine.

There is currently a thread in Driveline about 3/4-ton rear end swaps.

Yes your right the 235 are not cheap and the sbc are cheaper. My humble honest opinion what I would consider before I swapped to a v-8 is maybe looking at putting a t-5 tranny in your truck. What I did in mine was put a t-5 in place of the sm420 tranny so I could have overdrive. I also replace the single Rochester 1bbl carb with a Fenton dual intake and installed dual Carter/Weber 2 bbl. progressive carbs along with Fenton split headers. I still have a few more things to do before I fire the old chevy up but all the old timers who have been doing this for a while says the 235 is a great motor in the short distance. I will be excited to really see how she does.

Here's the thing I see at the cars shows is a lot of transplants to sbc's and LS1 etc. I think the inline 6 really looks cool dressed out and hopped up. But to each is their own. good luck but think twice before you swap.

Some years back I had a 51 with a rebuilt 235 in it that ran really well in stock form. The only other things I did to the truck was to swap out the rear axle for one with a higher ratio (3:73 if I remember right) which allowed the truck to cruise all day comfortably at 65 mph and then disc brakes for the front axle to scrub off some off that new found speed.

I'm a dyed in the wool six cylinder guy so of course I'll also say keep that stovebolt six if you can.

Over heating, poor performance are just a few of things that happen when you don't do your homework. I learn by doing, and I learn everything the hard way. That said, the only difference between the car engine and truck engine are the lifters. I kinda like the idea of quiet running engine. Being a 3/4 ton may limit your options for better rear axle ratio, but 4:10s won't get you up to freeway speeds, for long distance. The cooling can be fixed with the water pump modification, and or radiator. Oh yeah, what about the brakes, and steering, are they up to par? I do know a 350 isn't the always the answer! Been there done that.

I had a 235 in my '62 Bel Air with a powerglide and it would cruise all day at 70 MPH, and would even go more than that if needed. It would still be in the car if I didn't have issues rebuilding it. Your issue is with your gear setup (and throttle linkage, it sounds like), not with the engine.

So is a tranny with an overdrive out of the question??? Or, even easier, could you just add the overdrive if you could find one? Lets it go faster ---

Dale

Around 68' 69' I had a 51' 5 window w/ a 235 ,blowed a hole in top of #3 piston,Head was cracked .Bought a 327 out of a 64'Chev SS.I think it was 350hp.It bolted up to bell housing, only pro. the break linkage hit the ram exaust a little grinding no pro. -this was 1 fast truck ... surprised a lot of fords . lol I got down on it 1 2 many times rear u-joint gave up...wish I still had it ....

A 327 won't bolt up to a bell housing that fits a 235. There's a major flaw in this story...

And the steering box in the way for exhaust manifold...

Well what ever u say I did it ,used the original transmission, clutch, bell housing , all the orig. linkage ....But u must know everthing ....I just know what I did ....

I know what I did ,I used everything from motor back,Bell Housing , Cluch. pressure plate etc..... but u must know everything.....And u did't read v well it was the break linkage hitting the ram manifold not the steering box......

Wanderer1955,
Let's try this in a more polite, and diplomatic way. How did you get the 327 small block to clear the stock steering box? How did you get the bell housing, clutch, pressure plate to fit the 327? Most of us that visit this sight are here to learn from others. Seems like you have a bunch of invaluable info to share.
Carl

Also, how did the brake linkage (under the floor) manage to hit the exhaust manifold?

possibly it was the hand brake that hit the the rams horn? or it was the type of manifold that dumped at the back and the floor pedal hit that? .... but, yes wanderer, there are hundreds of 47-54 truck owners here that would like to know how to mate a V8 to a 235 bellhousing, would save searching for a V8 bellhouse

OTOH, "Around '68 '69" was so long ago you might misremember that it was the 327 with bellhousing, that fit right up to the original trans

Bill

I know what I did . I'm not going to argue with u..I had no pro. w/ steering box. it all fit like I said,,,& long box if u look at the brake linkage u can see where it would hit the end closest to the firewall. It just bareley hit it , a little grinding did the trick...Y guys believe what u want , again I know what I did,, I was trying 2 share with the man who was thing about a 350 in his...I can explain it 2 u , Just can't make u understand....I sorry I make this post , I want make another,,It will pro. b all our loses.......

I can't understand your version of English.

I'm familiar with how the brake linkage is setup on an Advance Design truck, I've been involved with 2 smallblock swaps in them. Never had a problem with the brake linkage. However, the steering box is in the way of the exhaust, even with Rams Horn manifolds. Plus, the original bellhousing and flywheel will not bolt up to smallblock, though I will give you that the stock transmission can be bolted up to the V8 bellhousing.

I'm having trouble with it, too.

Many of us have installed a small block in a AD truck and know of the problems one will encounter.
We also know what parts will and will not interchange.
There are thousand of AD trucks out there with small block engines but they all needed the correct combo of parts.
Unfortunately bad info is no better than no info.
What is helpful is a discussion to help others make the correct decision.

Great feedback, folks. Thank you. To clarify, I did install the short shaft water pump from Jim Carter when I did the engine back in '04 or so and had to use the flat back fan from a 216 because the 235 fan won't clear the radiator. Unfortunately, that water pump also put the fan out of center on the radiator so it is centered in the bottom 3rd which is probably causing the overheating problem. I can't move the radiator down to center it. (Have a photo, but can't figure out how to attach it here. It's been too long since I posted a photo I guess). I am inclined to try replacing the rear end and keep the 235 after reading your replies. It has the stock 4.57 gears and granny 1st gear. What would be the best and easiest swap for the rear end and would it keep the 8-lug wheels? I am a little nervous about running the radials Les Schwab sold me on a 2-piece rim, but they said they would be fine. And would a swap to a better gear ratio involve doing anything to the transmission? The truck has an enclosed driveline. Thanks again for the ideas folks.

As I mentioned above, there is a current thread on swapping 3/4- ton rear ends in the Driveline forum. No sense in repeating it in the Engine forum.

You might consider swapping out the short pump for the adapter that allows for use of the older style pump on the 235. It also relocates the pump on the later 235 to the 216 location, centering the fan in the radiator. There are several sources for this adapter, Patrick's is one of them.
You mention radial tires on 2 piece wheels, did they sell you tube type radials? Or did they simply put a "radial tube" in a stander tubeless tire? If it was the former, there shouldn't be any problems. If it was the latter, that is a setup for potential tire failure. When a tube is installed in a tubeless tire, the tube and the inner layer of the tire will chafe, leading to excess heat buildup and sidewall damage, especially at higher speeds. It's a common misconception that "radial tubes" are ok for all radial tires. That is incorrect. They are intended for tube type radials only.

Bill, To my knowledge Patrick's only sells the modified short shaft pump. If he is selling the adapter plate he copied mine as I do not supply him with them. I tried to get him to sell my plate a while back but he makes to much money on his pump.

I do think my adapter plate would cure Rick's overheating problem.
It is available from the Filling Station, Jim Carter, Buffalo, eBay, and direct from me.

I stand corrected. But your plate is the one I was thinking of.

I do have Daves plate installed on my 235 engine just installed into my 1951 one ton. It has answered the challenge staying at 180 degrees with a 180 degree thermastadt even at some 95 degree days here in Minnesota and running tne engine hard. You will not be disappointed. Patrick's son tried to sell me there version of water pump and I Would NOT Bite, in fact I hung up on him.
Jerry

Dave, sounds like you supply Jim Carter with the adapter plate and I've been in touch with them in the last day or two trying to make sure this is going to work for me. As a little background, my pickup had a 235 in it, but the previous owner had canted the radiator to make clearance for the cooling fan. (It is a 3/4-ton, so the original engine was a 216 before the previous owner changed things.) I ended up having to replace the old 235 block and it now has a 235 block from a '61 Biscayne. Because the water pump wouldn't fit and leave clearance for the cooling fan, I bought Carter's short shaft water pump, a recommended flat back fan and a new radiator since the old one was also shot. The short shaft and 216 fan give me about 3/4" of clearance to the radiator, but it centers about 4-5" from the bottom of the radiator. I'm trying to figure out how I can install a longer shaft water pump given the clearance and how the adapter plate is going to compensate for the additional shaft length and allow me to put a regular 235 cooling fan back on. The short shaft pump was reportedly going to fix my distance problem, but it created another in the process and I no longer have my regular pump. I don't have a photo of the adapter, so I can't get my mind around how it works. I don't want to buy a new water pump and an adapter only to find out it won't fit in my application. Can you post a photo of your adapter plate and what it looks like installed? That would be immensely helpful Thanks. Again, I wish I knew how to post a photo that would show more of what I am talking about.

When using my adapter plate you will be using the stock 1953 pump and putting it in the stock position. This allows you to use the stock fan, stock lower radiator hose and stock pump.
Here is a link to a picture and more info in my eBay listing

I read your information on the ebay listing. My 235 is from a '61 Biscayne, so it is the larger balancer pulley I suspect. What is the fix for that given the concerns about cracking the cooling fan? Other than that concern, it appears this would be the fix for my overheating problem, so I'd sure like to try it. Also, Carter's response to me was to use a 216 water pump with the adapter and you are suggesting a '53 235 pump if I read this right. Is there a difference or are 216 and early 235 pumps the same? Thanks.

1941-54 pumps are the same except for the pulley belt width.
1941-52 use a 5/8" belt
1953-54 use a 3/8" belt
You could use which ever style you like as long as the balancer and generator pulleys match.
You are correct that I would not recommend a 61 car balancer.
It shouldn't not hard to find a balancer that would work, I could even help you with that.

NEWS FLASH....My old friend , He's younger than me , He's 69...Came by this weekend he told me what we did ,( he helped me with my swap ) He said I bought the bell H. C & PP. with the 327 and we bolted it up to the transmission ,After a few thoughts , He is right & I was wrong,Age will do that to a person.... He also said the brake linkage did hit the Manifold...The brake goes 4' to the front...( I checked that this morning )also no pro. with the steering...sorry for the wrong info,...