The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Dissasembling/Rebuilding 216

Hello.

This is my first post on Stovebolt.com and am interested in specific advice related to the 216 in my 1941 Chevrolet. This car has not run in over 30 years but I would like to try and keep the 216, if at all possible, rebuild it and get it running.

I already made a makeshift crank and turned the engine, so I know it is not frozen, but would like to start digging a little bit deeper and begin to understand the 216 and how it works. Im thinking of beginning by taking off the valve cover and perhaps even the cylinder head, but I dont want to start digging and then not be able to put it all back together again.

Can anyone recomend any good books or tutorials on 216 engine dissassembly which may help guide me through the process? Or does anyone have any advice on where to start the dissassembly process? Right now I have the 41 shop manual and a book by Victor Page called the Chevy Six.

Thank you,

Judson

if you have the shop manual you pretty much have all you need. Many people take pictures of what they are removing. Put all the similar parts in ziplock bags and label what they are from/for. (I.E. head bolts, oil pan bolts, that sort of thing) I got an engraving tool and marked rods, rocker arms etc. The rods may already be marked, check this sort of thing before you disassemble. Keep in mind the disassembly is nearly as important as the assembly, take your time and lots of notes. A little time here will save you a lot of time later. There will be things you will come across in the manual that can be approached by a better method now days, but you will most likely be able to figure that out.

Judson,

brokenhead's advice is, as usual, excellent. Those dis-assembly details (identifications marks, notes, and photos) are not stressed in the Shop Manual, but those steps are especially important for someone not familiar with a 216 and/or not experienced in rebuilding an engine.

I took apart and assembled a 216 in 1969 and had no experience with any aspect of any engine. I had a Shop Manual and a new Craftsman tool box. There were some very helpful dirt-track racing mechanics who answered all my many (stupid) questions. I also lucked into finding a friendly and helpful machine shop.

That rebuilt 216 ran for many years.

Read the engine-rebuild part of the Shop Manual several times, and ask questions here.

Good luck.

Thank you brokenhead and tclerderman. It is good to know that this is a forum where I can ask those 'stupid' questions and learn. As I have been working on the chevy I have been taking pics and labeling what I take out, so I will continue to do that with the engine.

Where would you suggest starting with the engine?

I'm alittle ahead of you in my quest to get my 216 powered 49 3100 on the road again.

My 216 turned over but wouldn't start nor run. Following all the good advice I got here the final straw, a compression test, indicated that the engine wouldn't run w/ very low compression on cylinders 2,5 & 6.
I pulled the head and saw right off hand why, all the exhaust valves were burnt as well as all the valve seats were pitted etc. I sent it off to a machine shop and they rebuilt it w/all new components, only the casting wasn't new. That ran approx $300
Long story short, I cleaned up the cylinders and put it back together w/the original waterpump, rebuilt carb from a kit I got online and a low psi electric fuel pump and she's starting and running pretty strong now. I'm still ordering parts and addressing each subassembly as I go but having a running engine is the key in my case. The bottom end could lock up etc., but thats OK as it's got me working on it now.

Your at the same crossroad I was at. They are: try to get it running and restore back to it's original state, which means staying 6v for now -or- start tearing into the engine and rebuild it -or- look for a full pressure 235 or 261 -or- hot rod it w/a small block V8. The more you get away from "stock" the more $$$'s and mod's you'll be getting into.

You're going to need a battery so thats one of the 1st decisions to make. If your truck is still setup for 6v that will be the cheapest shorterm route, if it's already been converted to 12v then that decisionis already made for you.
I'm staying 6v for now as I've got much more I need to do to do to get mine on the road and $$$'s are a main decision maker for me. Remember you can always convert to 12v on down the road.

If the engine is still fully connected in the truck, you can then go about getting spark,fuel & compression going and if you have the tools you can put a cooling system pressure tester on to see if it can handle a running engine.

This film is a must see for 216 owners
https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=954044#Post954044

Good luck
Dave

Dave,

It is really good to read your story. You right, you are ahead of me in the process, but it sounds like we have a similar philosophy of our goals for our respective trucks/cars. I would like to keep my 216 and for now keep the 6v. Fortunately when the car was towed out of the barn it had almost everything in it...including many mice nests!

The first thing I did was to begin to tear out the interior because of that...the mice and rat poo and nest was not ideal conditions to work in. Now I am making my way to the dash and the engine and that is why I started posting here on Stovebolt.com.

One thing, out of curiosity I did pour water into the radiator and it came back out the bottom so I am assuming there is a leak in the radiator that I will need to fix before trying to connect it to the battery and turn it over. Like you, one of my first priorities was to get that 6v battery and see what would happen. (By the way, the car didnt have a key so I have to get one made-I hear the code is stamped on the driver side lock)

Now that Im taking apart the dash, however, it doesnt seem like Im going to be able to see if it fires up because all the wires will be disconnected to the starter and such...

I appreciate the feedback. Thank you!

Judson

Dave,

I also really liked that film. I my research in getting ready to work on the 216 I saw that it had the dipper style oil lubrication method, but this video was fun to explain it all simply. I like these older videos!

Was pulling the head easy? Is there any special tricks or things to look out for?

Judson

Dave,

Hooking a wire up from the starter terminal to the coil terminal is all that is needed to turn the engine over?

Judson

Thats all you need to do to hot wire the ign to get it to run. Does your starter use the foot pedal or the keyswitch to engage the starter?
If foot pedal, all you need is the hot wire as described above, and either depress the footstarter or use a large screwdriver etc., to wedge behind the linkage so you can try to start it from the engine compartment.

If keyswitch, that means it has a starter solenoid. To get the starter solenoid to engage there should be a small terminal on the solenoid that runs back to the ign switch. If you momentarily short the small terminal to the large battery terminal on the solenoid (the same large termina you'll run the hot wire from) this should throw the solemoid switch which will engage the starter. You also want the hot wire jumped to the coil pos terminal too.

Depending upon the solenoid's terminal layout, you can sometimes short the small & large terminals w/a screw driver but a better way is to get one of those cheap remte starter push button tools at a local FLAPS. Useing a screw driver can damage the threads on those terminals if you aren't very careful. A jumper wire will work too.

Dave

Hi Dave,

I have a foot pedal starter.

It is good to know it will be that easy to start the car. With my heater hoses I guess I can just connect them together... Im not sure if there will be any other adjustments to have to make to start it with the body off...but Ill post when I get there!

All that said, Im still a ways from getting the body off and getting to work on the engine. Right now Im working on removing the dash and then Ill probably begin taking the body bolts off before really getting into the 216.

Besides the hole in the radiator, Ive already noticed my carb has become rusted so much that the choke and accelerator lever does not move!

Judson

the head only weighs about 75 pounds, (I had one shipped via UPS once) Personally I wouldn't even attempt to remove it with manifolds attached, as they come off in one piece (intake and exhaust) and if you use the studs on the ends and the alignment rings, goes back on quite easily. It isn't impossible to just lift it out of the engine compartment, however an engine hoist makes easy work of it. I made a spreader bar out of 2"x 1/4" angle iron (to give ample stiffness) with 2 holes that match up with the 2 long studs, so I can lift with out placing any bending stress on said studs, such as would happen if I just used a chain or such. and the best part is the studs aren't exactly centered and the angle iron is slightly offset and it lifts nearly perfectly flat.

Dave/Stovebolt members,

I was looking back in old posts and came across this one I wrote a while back.

Since this post, I've tried to turn the car over. It turned-i.e. the starter worked and power was to the plugs-but no ignition. After running a compression test, I found the same thing as you, Dave-no compression.

Well, actually 2 of the cylinders have no compression, the other 4 have compression from 10-40 pounds-way below the manuals stated 110 to run.

Im thinking of pulling the engine. The rocker arms go up and down so it doesnt seem to be cam. Im thinking it is piston rings frozen to pistons-but saw on this post Dave got away with pulling head and it was valves....

Also, what about cracked block or head? In other words, what are chances of this engine having a crack in the body or head? (The front freeze plug was popped).

Just looking for advice before pulling engine from car.
Thanks for continued help,

Judson

Judson,

It wasn't a stovebolt, but we just started up an engine that hadn't run in about 30 years. It was a Seagrave (Pierce-Arrow) V-12 that had been sitting under a lean-to over-looking a lake here in Missouri.

Like you, we got varying degrees of low compression, and 2 or 3 holes with none. We drained the oil, pulled the pan to clean the sludge, and checked the oil pump. We pulled the heads (flat-head engine) to examine the valves and seats - some (open all those years) had rust, all were dirty. We got a valve-seat grinder (vintage Black n Decker model, like a Sioux or Kwik Way) and did a clean-up grind on all the seats. We wire-wheeled all the valves, then chucked them in a drill press and treated the faces with emory cloth.

All valves were then lapped in. Of course, the piston tops were all cleaned of carbon, and the cylinders were all carefully cleaned. The few that had rust were carefully emory-clothed to clean them up.

We also took apart, cleaned, and reassembled the hydraulic lifters - not a factor in this case, obviously.

Everything was liberally sprayed down with solvent, including reinstalling the pan with 4 bolts and rinsing down the valve valley with diesel fuel. The pan was cleaned again, installed with new gasket and fresh oil. Both heads were bead-blasted, flushed and blown clean thoroughly, painted, plug holes chased, and reinstalled on new gaskets.

Rebuilt carbs and distributors (2 of each on this engine), reinstalled, timed, and primed. Took a lot of cranking, but she finally started up! Smoked like a banshee for 5 minutes. Second start up was much better. Third start up, dialed in the idle and mixture screws, ran her for 15 minutes, checked the timing - spot on - and now she purrs. The running with clean oil will eventually help free up the rings, and compression will improve. Also, it's still running with just jumper wires from the starter to the coils - the wiring is totally shot.

OK . . . when I recount all the work, it suddenly doesn't seem all that simple . . .

Basically, it amounted to an in-frame rebuild. But, didn't pull the engine, and didn't pull the crank or pistons. Now, if you pull the head, which I strongly advise, you may find cylinders that are desperate for a hone job or worse, due to heavy scarring or scratching. Personally, I would just do as we did, clean it up and get it running. You won't make anything any worse for the work, and you'll have a more complete picture to base your decisions on.

Don't know if this helps - I tend to ramble. &-)

-Michael

I've seen stovebolt engines run with 50-60 lbs. of compression pressure, and as the rings free up it's not uncommon for a cylinder with very low compression to improve considerably. One chronic problem seems to be valves that suddenly seize up in the guides and bend pushrods after running for a short period of time, especially if there's any stale gasoline in the tank. It's a very good idea to use an outboard motor fuel tank or just a can of fresh gas with a siphon tube to supply the fuel pump for the initial startup.

Here's my favorite penetrating oil, made in Nashville Tennessee about 60 miles north of my farm. KROIL:

www.kanolabs.com

It's great for freeing up rust-frozen bolts and nuts, piston rings seized in their grooves, etc.
Jerry

If you are not machining the engine then any parts that move should be placed back in the same place they were removed from. Thus all the advice about marking the parts. You can use a center punch to help with alignment and location. One punch, two punch marks etc.

If you put a bit of oil in each cylinder, will tell if it is rings or valves. If it is rings, compression will come up a bit, if not it is valves.

John

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qq

With reguard to freeze damage, look close under the intake and exhaust manifold, scrape of the crud and look close if there is a crack this is where it will be. Scott

Thank you for the responses. Ive already removed the fender and radiator assembly, so whether or not I do an on frame rebuild or pull the engine, it will be easier.

I did add oil to the cylinders and turned it over, as one post indicated. The pressure changed on a few, but not the cylinders with 0 compression. After reading the postings, it makes me think it is more valves which makes me think Ill pull head before pulling entire engine. Reading that the piston rings will loosen up after running also makes me think of pulling head before pulling entire engine. I did put fresh oil in car and will use separate gas can to siphon gas into carb on first start. The original gas tank is rusted through regardless.

One thing I did notice when removing valve cover-the oil line that runs from block to rocker arms had a plug on the driver side of the channel. Looking at the diagram it appears that the oil line originally ran up from the block on the passenger side, over the rocker arm, and then down into the rocker arms from the driver side. Mine goes straight in on the passenger side, and then the driver side of the oil line had a plug in it. Any ideas why this might have been done?

Judson

Heres a pic of my stock 216 valve train oil line setup. This is how they came from the factory.
Dave

Volfandt,

My does not have the upper tube.

Mine comes in from the bottom- like yours- but where the tube comes out and goes over the top-I dont have that. Instead mine was plugged up at that hole for the tube on the side by carb.

Does that line dump right onto the top? Or does it go somewhere else?

This is very helpful,

Thanks,

Judson

Judson, that tube just dumps oil through a hole in the head there, from the rocker shaft back down to the oil pan. a common thing to do was to pinch it off or pug it. with the idea that it will hold more oil in the rocker shaft and oil the rockers better. ether way it will work fine.
Jay D

Thanks, Jay. That is helpful. I am attaching a pic of mine. You can see where the plug was on the other side instead of return tube.

http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv539%3C%3Dot%3E2455%3D884%3D36%3A%3DXROQDF%3E2%3B26736834246ot1lsi

By the way, someone mentioned that if there was a crack in the block, it would be at exhaust/intake manifolds. Why there?

Not sure a crack in the block is right at the exhaust/intake manifold, but below them in the engine block. I know 235 engine can have cracks between the intake and exhaust valve seats in the combustion chamber of the head. Not sure if 216 also had this problem or not....

John

The reason is there could be a "freeze" crack on that side of the block behind the intake and exhaust manifold that is difficult to see because of them. This is a large area which is prone to this if there was not anti-freeze in it. I believe it was mentioned previously that it had a freeze plug pushed out. Freeze plugs are actually casting plugs, and if you get lucky they will come out without other damage. There is no such possibility for relief on the left side of the block.

Thanks. Yes, my freeze plug (or casting plug) did pop out. It was the one in the front. I replaced it with a plug that tightens with a nut from Pep Boys. I needed to do a little modification to make it fit because the bolt was to long, but it seems to work fine for the moment. When I pull off the manifolds Ill check out the area around it on the block. Thank you.

You can see the area fine with the manifolds in place. It is typically located in line with the block drain petcock, located low and to the left, well below the manifolds.
Carl

Hi All.

So, since the last post I've taken apart the front end and engine.I used your advice up to this point. Just to revisit, Im trying to uncover why I have 0 compression on two cylinders, and a range of 10-40 pds. of compression on the remaining.

What I found is that cam seems to be moving lifters. That is good news.

One push rod was bent.

I pulled oil pan as well as taking off head and all surrounding parts.

The valves look pretty messy with carbon build up-as well as the piston tops. None seem to be stuck, however. The inside of the piston cylinder wall does not seem to be scratched up or grooved.

Any tricks on removing the valve springs without a spring compression tool?

Ill redo the valves, but any other ideas I might be missing?

Some say the head or block could be cracked, and others say cam could be stripped-but Im going ahead with the valve job first.

Thanks,

Judson