The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Intermittent Starter Grind - Most likely culprit?

Hello,

My 54' is new to me...which means I have lots to learn! Since buying the truck 4 months ago, I've been experiencing intermittent what sounds like grinding noise when starting.

Here is what I know about the truck...hope it's enough for the knowledgeable folks here to lead me in the right direction.

54'
235 (original)
foot start
converted to 12v

As far the 12v conversion...I'm not exactly sure how far the conversion was taken. Battery, lights (bulbs)/modern radio/alternator/fuel gauge all look to be in place and functioning properly.

The outside of the starter is marked with company ID of "VAE" (Colorado) with ID# 443-5775 and handwritten number of "6474". There is a metal plate on the outside of the starter, but it's not legible. Does anyone know based on this information if this is most likely a 12v starter?

In any case, not knowing what flywheel is on the truck....and assuming (for the moment) the starter is most likely 12v....if the flywheel wasn't the larger teethed version (169?) would it even start properly?

I'm hoping starter has been matched and it's a fairly simple issue with starter.

Thanks in advance!

Kevin

If it starts okay some times without grinding and then out of the blue will grind it sounds like the starter has a bad starter drive in it.

If the metal plate still has any original paint on it you can tell if it is 6 or 12 volts.
6 volt has a black background.
12 volt has a red background.
6 and 12 volt starters can not be mixed on flywheels.

You may have a bad Bendix but if that is not it than it could be the flywheel teeth.
It is common for the leading point of the flywheel teeth to become ground flat so the Bendix teeth spin on the end of the flywheel teeth without engaging.
This is especially true on a 12 volt conversion where the 6 volt starter was used.
It helps to sharpen the teeth on the front/engaging end of the flywheel so the Bendix teeth engage easier.

Thanks guys! The tag has black background....so most likely scenario is I have 6v starter with original flywheel?

If so, my plan should be to remove starter and inspect? Bad drive will present as? Then move to flywheel and inspect? As far as sharpening teeth on flywheel....any tips? Sorry for basic questions....newbie!

Thanks!

If you take out the flywheel, you might as well count the teeth on it. You truck was converted to 12v (not by you?), so you do not know for certain if the flywheel is original 6v.

If the flywheel is out it is much easier to bevel the front edge.
I have done a few with the flywheel in place.
Pull the flywheel cover and use a die grinder or small carborundum wheel.
Some of the earlier flywheels are beveled from the factory.
I will see if I have an example I can post a picture of.

My starter used to grind sometimes and I pulled it to have a look. The drive was bad, very loose on the shaft and the teeth were worn. It did damage to my ring gear very quickly. I replaced the drive and it has never made a grinding sound since.

What caught my eye about your problem is you say it is intermittent. If the flywheel didn't match the starter it would be nosy all the time.

Maybe some teeth on the flywheel are chewed up and when the engine stops these bad teeth get in just the right position and the starter can't engage properly. You can pull the dust cover to get a good look at the teeth on the fly wheel.

Yes, it was converted to 12v before I purchased. I'm going to pull starter and go from there. Thanks everyone!

Here is a picture of the factory bevel on a 6 volt flywheel.
Link to picture
Although these are not to bad you can also see how the ends are getting ground down

Very helpful....thanks!

in case you are wondering, (no one has mentioned it) you can use the 6 volt starter with 12 volts with no harm.

A bad Bendix sounds more like the starter is just spinning without turning the engine. The problem I explained makes a lot of noise.

A bad bendix many times will present a grinding sound when the clutch gets worn. And sometimes it may work fine, then there are times it won't grab and will grind.

Once it gets worn enough, it will sound like the starter motor is spinning, but not engaging.

With intermitten grinding noises, lots of times the engaged end of flywheel teeth get worn down making the bendix have to reach farther to engage the flywheel teeth, and since the bendix is already spinning you hear this grind as it is trying to engage. It would be highly likely that a portion of the flywheel teeth are worn down.

Four cylinders are real bad on this because they really have a "favorite" place where the flywheel usually stops since there is only a few places where there is a piston coming up on compression-thus stopping the flywheel at that position when you turn the key off -so those teeth repeatedly are always seeing the engagement of the bendix, thus there is a definite worn groping of flywheel teeth-sometimes requiring new starter ring (or flopping the ring gear around providing a fresh set of tooth ends) or another flywheel. If the clutch part of the bendix unit is worn out, the starter motor will just wind and wind without throwing the gear into the flywheel no grinding noises here. I have never witnessed a wornout bendix gear-though it could happen.