The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Patina or restore? (55 1st series 5 window 3100)

I have just acquired a 55 3100 1st series 5 window pickup with original paint. It is amazingly rust free and straight. The paint is the original red and has faded and worn away in places into the bare metal. There is very little surface rust however. I've read that the value of the truck would be more if left unpainted? Whatcha think? I don't have a photobucket account as of yet.

I like the original -- hard to duplicate what time has done. And I would pay more for original. But do what you like unless you are planning to sell!

I second R-Bo's position.

I wonder about using a rust converter, some phosphoric acid to convert the rust to phosphate, then wax it real good?
I just hate to see something rusting to pieces. Maybe do the same to the underside too. Curious what others think.

I have the same inclination with the interior of my 54, which is the original 2 tone deluxe blue. It is worn through use, faded and has a beautiful patina that just can't be duplicated. I dont think I will ever change the interior for these reasons. Maybe that is the same reason you leave the outside of yours alone.

Some photos: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ulj1ebjaygn644t/NbddmxexRY?m

Most "rust converters" will produce a black (polymeric) coating on the bare metal and a milky cover on the painted surface.

Has anyone any experience in simply wiping/washing the surface with something like WD-40 (it displaces moisture, provides some rust resistance, and will not hurt paint)? Mineral spirits or acetone cab be used to remove it.

Okay, I'll confess i tried that once with a truck I was selling. What a mess. The paint took on an oily look that was horrible. I think I lost about a grand in value because it was a lot harder to sell. Everyone was afraid of the paint.

this guy used CLR

...link...

nice results on the hood

On one of the Sunday morning shows on Spike TV they shot clear over a patina finish to preserve it. I have no clue as to how long that would last. Keep in mind it's only original once.

Wow I appreciate all of the responses I'm getting! I am definitely leaning on keeping the patina as it actually has a really cool look to it. I like the idea of shooting a coat of clear over it as well. It is the original red with a factory pinstripe around the belt molding and actually does look really cool. I'd imagine a good coat of wax on the existing paint now would make it shine still, but I'm sure a coat of clear would go on nicely without having to use a wax remover.

I used CLR with the green ScotchBrite pads. Came out great but my garage gets a bit damp this time of year so I'm now getting a very little bit of light surface rust. Nothing that I can't wipe off with a rag tho. Thought about rubbing it down with Boiled Linseed Oil but I've heard stories of it turning sticky. It's been almost a year as is and it still looks good and shiny.

Before and after pics - http://rustyfiftyone.com/exfoliation/

Not if there is any wax on the finish, it'll peal and flake in a very short time.

R-Bo has made a very true statement here. I've tried myself to do a rust or patina effect on the Blue Funk. The technique I use is similar to an paint technique using various hues and stain or dabbing with something like Rusty Metal Primer. When I've done murals and ojects for the community theatre, the effect is convincing. However, the audience is at least 15 feet away and lighting helps to enhance the effect. On the Blue Funk, in the light of day, the result was too "cartoonish". I ended up painting the Blue Funk with a flat paint color. It gives sort of a sun-bleached look of which I'm satisfied.

There's a fellow artist in the next town from mine who does these patina and rust effects, with pretty good results, on his antique truck. His truck is a Ford, circa 1950. His technique appears quite convincing passing him on the road. However, close up you can tell it's a obvious painting technique.

Cool discussion! Great perspectives and links!

By far the best thing to do is NOTHING! I studied this years ago and the opinion of most is to leave it alone, no clear, no oil, no CLR, NO SCOTCHPAD!. Wash it, drive it. Try some silicone base wax in some unseen area if you want shine. But just try in one little area and wait for a few months to see what it does. Those types of waxes do not require much rubbing and will not remove paint like the other waxes will.

If you do nothing its just going to rot into dust.
You have to do something to preserve the thin sheet metal, as well as the frame etc.
CLR is a good idea. And real wax is the best way to go. Or the 3M hand glaze stuff.

It all depends on the look you are after. If you check out at the link I posted, the majority of my truck was almost beyond surface rust. In my opinion coarse rust and corrosion are not patina, they are examples of severe decay. Paint and metals burnished from use, chips, light dents, scratches and mild oxidation are the patina that most are looking for.

Personally, I'm sort of put off by the current state of my own truck. I'd eventually like to repaint it, which I'll have to do after taking care of the body work anyway, and wear the paint down a bit to knock some of the shine off. Not saying I want a matte paint job, I just want it to look like a well used and well cared for truck.


BTW, I painted and "aged" the top and visor on mine to match the body. Spray paint, sandpaper and a handfull of rocks. I found the trick to weathering paint is to do several coats of different colors after priming, then hit it with paper and other abrasives to take down the surface and finally use a power sander with fine paper to wear thru to the other colors.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7125/7676712288_86704da1e1_k.jpg

I'll try to get some better pics asap. Unfortunately she's up on stands while I blast and powder coat the wheels.

How about this one?? http://www.classictrucks.com/features/1003clt_1953_chevy_suburban/photo_01.html

I rubbed my wifes '36 out to get a little shine and waxed it with mothers, right over the obvious rust areas....works great. See my photo bucket.

None of us has seen it, so it's hard to say if it's the type of patina to save or not. If you like it that's what counts. Patina is a non specific word in truck language, It usually means original paint, rubbed off in many places, sometimes old lettering, mottled paint, slight surface oxidation (rust). It does not mean a rust bucket. You say "rust free" with a little surface rust appearing. It is now 58 years old, it's not going to rust to dust. These opinions are based on where we live and how we feel about patina we haven't seen. You live in WA, I live in AZ. It also all depends on how much use it will get, if it's stored in a garage, never driven in snow/salt, hosed off and wiped down and the undercarriage treated/painted. CLR puts a non original looking "shine" on it, patina to me is dull or waxed. Clear coat may ruin it, bubble or crack when it reacts to the paint or it may not. You won't know if you will like it until after you do something, you won't know if it will damage it until later on, possibly. I live in AZ so leaving it alone was right for me. DADS50's link is interesting but it does not show the drivers side hood before and after. What I see is some pics while still wet from water and the rest are just a cleaner truck? Some other photos show CLR just shines the rust. CLR is a calcium, lime, surface rust remover for toilets (porcelain). I do not see any info on it for protecting paint or rust areas from further rust. Most of the people using CLR are funky 60's and 70's four doors and Rat Rods. Yours is neither. Those guys don't know what they are doing and don't care. Maybe the chemists at CLR do, when they say on the bottle, "Do Not Use On Painted Surfaces". I think original red with pin stripe is rare and very popular for resale. Chrome wheels and red is like sexy, man! I still recommend what I said in my first post. Try some wax in a safe place and see if you like it or not. Ran into this, but don't know anything about it other than what the guy says. You can google this product for more info: http://www.instructables.com/id/Preserve-the-Beauty-of-Raw-or-Rusted-Steel-Iron-/

Kick your base coat off at a 4 to 1 ratio and it'll have good uv protection and remain flat and then just hit a few small verticle areas with a light dusting of the clear top coat - don't wet it out.

Like the previous Bolters have mentioned it all depends on what you want. Personally if I was keeping the truck it would be in a full restoration that way it can be preserved the right way & for alot longer than the factory build, but that's me. Each of us has our own vision on how or what we want our trucks to look like. Alot of changes happen along the way as well.

Agree with all above. The truck in the Stovebolt.com header and in most of the pages is our '49 1-ton that's original/unrestored and in all it's patina'd glory.

The real question is what do you intend for the truck -- Investment or driver? Do you want to enjoy the truck, drive it and use it, or just flip it make a return on it?

Original, unmolested trucks are unique and always draw a good crowd at shows and gatherings. I know for ours, based on our previous experience restoring old trucks, that if we restored or repainted this truck, two things would happen-- 1. It would be a lot less fun to play with as we'd be afraid of harming the restoration efforts and 2. the "charm" of it would be gone. As Scott Ward says, "It's only original once."

We love driving and lightly working our good, ole Stovebolt without getting all twerped out about scratching the paint or getting it dirty. The best preservative for these old trucks is regular (light to moderate) USE. It's amazing how just using the truck preserves the patina.

Bottom line -- it's your truck. Decide what would make you happy and go that route. It's good to ask questions and get input. Good on ya for preserving that truck! Good luck which ever way you go!

John

Peggy here. You should see Cosmo's truck. It really looks nice. I'm not sure what / if he's done anything to the "paint." I'm sure he'd fess up.

Peg

Here's a comparison of before/after cleaning with CLR and green scotch brite pads:

http://images61.fotki.com/v1610/photos/3/1843243/10435882/20130801_122551_794-vi.jpg

http://images115.fotki.com/v607/photos/3/1843243/10435882/20130902_120517_287-vi.jpg

I mixed CLR 50/50 with water and scrubbed for about two hours, doing about a half fender or door at a time and then rinsing really good.

yes, just polish out the rust, and wax it up good, if it doesn't get oxygen it can't rust....(that is why it is called OXIdation.)

A great product to use is called Gibbs Brand. It's the best preservative/penetrant I've ever found and I've used it for years. You probably won't find it anywhere in a store, but google it and you'll find it from online suppliers. It's a well known product among the patina hot rod guys.

This is a real problem and one I wrestle with constantly. If you really do an over the top restoration, now you have real problems. 1) You can't drive it because you can get $50k or more for a clean frame up resto, but the second you drive it, the price goes down to 25k or less. 2) You have to store it in a climate controlled (68 degrees to 75 degrees approx) with a nice cover so it doesn't deteriorate at all. 3) You have to run it every so often, detail it, etc periodically to keep the restoration fresh. 4) And for what? This is something to seriously consider. Its a real problem I have run into a few times. If you really want to enjoy these wonderful trucks, the moral of the story is, don't do a really awesome job on it. If you do, there is a whole new world of misery you are opening yourself up to. LOL!

Hmm, Deve- thinking you are on to something here. I have a good buddy that restores NCRS top flight cars and he can never leave it at a car show or drive it anywhere and park it to go in and get a burger. If he does, he has a real bad case of indigestion when he comes out cause he hogged his food down. What fun huh? There is a happy medium between a rattle can rebuild and a full of resto. Leaving the truck like mine with old patina and exposed sheet metal isn't the answer, I say you have to cover the old girl up and protect the skin. Seems like the patina thing is all the rage, but a little kooky if you ask me.