The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 235 Experts- Did I kill my engine?!

Hy firemonkey, there are two 3/8" N.C. bolt holes in the balancer that you can use with a puller to remove the balancer. There are two bolts in the bottom of the timing gear cover which have to be accessed by removing the oil pan. You can reverse the direction of these bolts when you reassemble. You can do that by tapping the front main bearing cap out to 3/8" N.C. and drilling the two bottom holes in the timing gear cover to allow the bolts to pass through the cover, hope that helps.

2 bolts on the backside, drop the pan and they're they are just above the front main bearing.

Way to go PapaJ. I was feeling around down there and I could have sworn I felt the butt end of a bolt. I was hoping that it wasn't a twisted off head left there by the p/o. That would explain it. I was kinda hoping to be forced into dropping the pan so that I can take a look and make sure that everything is looking good in there. So I don't need to take the pulley off? Is that right? Thanks a lot Papa. Keep your ears on cause I know I will be needing help again. I ain't know ex-spert lol.

Still need to remove pully to get cover off. I did an "inframe' rebuild of my motor and had the same problem with the timing cover, that's when I asked the folks here, and they always answer.

I had a feeling that the pulley still had to come off cause it's totally in the way. Any suggestions on how to make that happen? Heat? It it doesn't have obvious bolts or nuts on it.

Oh, and on a side note. I was wondering if you knew how to get this thing to email me when I have a response on my post? I clicked my preferences and checked the email my watched posts but I don't see where I need to precess to "watch" this one. Do you happen to know? Cause if I am having technical difficulties I would like to know right away if someone has responded.

Hy firemonkey, please read my post above, it should help.

there are two 3/8" N.C. bolt holes in the balancer that you can use with a puller to remove the balancer. As per 3B

Ask e-mail question on the IT Short Bus and like magic the answer will appear.(POOF)

PapaJ, sounds like you may be approaching true expert level, without the spert
Now by 3B I am assuming that you have a manual. So far I have done all the work without one but I would appreciate it if you could direct me to a link for a 1960 235 manual. I know virtual manuals exist but I can't seem to find one for a 1960, I found a 1959 on google at some point but since I wasn't sure if it was the same, I didn't save it. Someone put a 1960 motor in my 54.
...and thanks for the heads up on the shortbus forum, I will cruise by there now before I hit the rack.
Thanks again.

Check with the guys in the 60-66 forum they will direct you to the right books

http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/#year this link shows every year but 1960 truck shop manual. It even shows 1960 radio manual and truck operators manual but no shop manual.

monkey, that site is not something that GM or the govt handed us, read the top of the page [ http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/ ], it's a volunteer effort, depending on donated material - if you particularly want the 60 shop manual there buy a copy and donate it to Keith to scan and add, or because he always has a deep pile of stuff to do, maybe you could scan it yourself and send a copy in .... and note it doesn't "show every year", so maybe you'd volunteer to do some of the other missing years as well

Bill

As Bill says, "what gives" is every one of the guys that have put untold hours into “The
Old Car Manual Project” to build the best archive of vintage and hard to find automobile
literature there is. Keith Hardy along with many other contributors have put enough time
in on this project that you could call it a full time job for some of them. And it's all free to
us, unless your conscience bothers you and you feel it’s only the right thing to do to
help keep it going by making a small contribution once in a while.
Same deal as the Stovebolt. No dues, all volunteer, but at the end of the day, someone has
to pay the bills and it sure shouldn't be the people that put the time in starting, hosting or
maintain these sites. You can bet your bird they aren't doing it because of the money, it's
because they have a love of the hobby and a desire to share the information with all who
care to join in and help the hobby stay healthy and grow.
You should have been a hot rodder or restorer back in the 50's and 60's when there was
no where to find this sort of information. All you had back then was a Motor’s Auto
Repair Manual, a copy of Honk or Hot Rod and if you were lucky, a hand full of friends
to discuss your project.
Which reminds me, it’s spring, a fresh new start for the year, taxes are paid so it’s time to
toss a few bucks Peg, John and Keith’s direction, thanks guys for giving all you give us.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Red and Denny, I re-read my message and I apologize as I see it reads horribly. I was up to my elbows in grease and it was late in the night. No excuse. I was caught up in the project and needed some info and got frustrated when I didn't find it. Not a good excuse either. Regardless, I misspoke and I came off like a [censored]. I have since fixed my "what gives" comment. I am very appreciative of this forum and it's members (especially Keith) since they have already helped me on numerous occasions already. I know that written communication sometimes gets easily misinterpreted but I hope my apology comes through with sincerity.
I am buying a printed version of the 1960 shop manual and I will like to donate a scanning of it to Keith and lend it to whomever may need it. I will contact him directly as soon as it is in my possession to make it happen. No hard feelings I hope.

So, I got some work done today on my motor. I was able to get the harmonic balancer off as well as the oil pan and the last two bolts off of the timing gear cover. ...and there it was, as most of you guys suspected, a gear with about 14 teeth missing. I'm not sure why my 1954 truck has a fiber gear since I have been told that the serial numbers on the block and head indicate that it is 1960 truck motor. I know that they are supposed to be quieter but less reliable. Who would want this trade off?
So next step is to remove the gear. Is there any way of removing the gear without removing the cam shaft? I have felt in the holes on the gear and I feel a philips screw head in there. I'm still waiting on my manual in the mail and I would like to keep working. Any pointers? Thanks again guys.

There is no good way to change the gear without pulling the cam.
Make sure you keep the lifters in order.
There are two Philips screws holding the cam in.

I would suggest temporarily putting the pan back on with a couple of screws and install a couple of quarts of oil. Then spin the oil pump and watch the nozzle that lubes the gears to be sure it is getting oil.

I know people badmouth fiber gears but I have never seen one fail that was getting oil.
There is a oil pathway on the back side of the timing plate that is commonly sludge up.

The two phillips screws behind the cam gear is the cam thrust plate which holds the camshaft in place or from walking out from my understanding. Someone can correct me if i am wrong. I tried gear pullers and broke the gear. I just took mine to a machine shop to have it pressed off. The one motor that had the fiber gear i only wanted for the block tried to break off the gear and i really could not either ( the cam was damaged before i started so i was not worried about it) . I think the best way is with a press. Good luck with it. I am a newbie too so pm me if you have any questions i will share with you what i know

I'm further going in over my head but I will press on. Hopefully, the cam is in good shape but that gear is toast! [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/tarponeer/54%20Chevy/20130326_155648_zps07aa183b.jpg[/IMG]

I will start getting the grill off because I can't see anything sliding out the front with that thing in the way. Hopefully my manual will be here before I get started on the cam removal process. If not I will be asking a lot of questions. Thanks for all the help guys.

Sometimes it is hard to tell from photos but I would expect the whole area to be dripping with oil. I think Dave's suggestion about checking for oil flow is pretty essential. The solution may require removing the front plate.

As stated by others make sure you keep the lifters in order when you remove them, they have a wear pattern from the lobe they ride on and mixing them up could be the death of the cam. I find an egg carton works great for keeping them in order, I number the carton holes from 1-12 and pull the lifters from front to back. After the lifters are pulled I put the carton in a safe area where I know I wont knock it over.

I'm with Dave, my moneys on the gear was starving for oil...

Mike B

I am being given conflicting advice. A mechanic that I know says that it is totally unnecessary extra work to remove the cam. He says that I should tap the gear and us a puller to remove it.
It is tempting to attempt it.

How are these gears usually fed oil? If it's getting oil how do I remedy the problem?
Thanks again for all the help and tips guys. I am going to definitely use the egg carton trick Mike B. That is, if I end up not pulling the gear.

you'll need to pull the cam, the gear is on real tight. you will also need to press the new one on. I usually heat the gear on a hot plate then press it on with a press. I'm not saying in can't be done with it in the engine but you'll hate your self for trying it. its no big job to pull the cam out

Never Ever did one in the eng.
Always pulled the cam.
Pay attention to what Dave says about the Lube Factor.
NO Oil To the spray nozzle is a DEATH KNELL to the cam gear!
And why in the world would You want to go thru all that trouble and labor to have to do it all over AGAIN !
Not sayin ya can,t get the gear off by pulling it,BUT
how ya gonna get the new one on,Beat it With A Hammer?
Just sayin.
steve sr.

"how ya gonna get the new one on,Beat it With A Hammer?"

That's exactly what I was thinking when he told me about pulling it. It seems as good as a mech as he is, he just doesn't know this engine like you guys seem to. I was trying to keep it simple but I guess pulling it may just be the simple way out. I'll keep you guys posted.

Oh, Steve. The "spray" nozzle that you refer to... is that the little tube between both gears? Can that be reamed or flushed? What's the right way to make sure oil is flowing?

Exactly,
As Dave has stated,
The nozzle of which You refer to correctly,
is bet. both gears and is fed by a passage machined into the Backside of the timing plate and if it gets clogged up,starves the gearset of oil.
The only cure is to pull the plate off the front of the eng.whilest the cam is out and clean out the passage.
This front plate is also the front engine mount.
Follow his lead and determine if You are getting oil to this tube.
It,s easier than pulling the plate IF You don,t have to!
steve sr.

Hey firemonkey, here's some great advice from a newbie like myself. These guys really knows these motors you are at the right place stovebolt.com for your 235 questions. The basic mechanical is 101 for us and these guys can do it blindfolded in the dark. I now know how things come apart and how to put things back together but why things break not always, like in your case with the fiber gear.

Last August was my first time buying a stovebolt truck and first 235 motor that i decided tear a part and rebuild. Just relax and listen to the advice given here they have not steered me wrong yet and i am at the point of getting my motor back from the machine shop and ready to assemble it all from help of these guys, not my neighbor & not my local mechanic. My point is really simple these guys love this hobby as i do myself but these guys are the experts. Just ask your questions read all the posts, have a little faith and confidence and follow their advice.

Now as far as your oiling issue, once the camshaft is off the front motor plate is really easy to remove. It has three screw driver flat blade screws and 2 hexhead bolts and wala if i remember correctly the little tube has a small hole on the bottom of the tube and you can see if its plugged once you pull the front motor plate off. The tube is self explainatary to clean and if its not clooged then your pump is the next thing to check. On the oil pump it is held in the by a pipe and one screw with a backing nut. Its all easy. Take one step at a time and listen to the more experienced guys' advice.

Check your oil pump screen at the end of your oil pump . My truck had so much sludge i do not know how it ever ran.

Good luck and take it step by step and read your manuals too.

Tiny, I agree with you. So far most of the advice on here has been spot on. I think I am being steered in the right direction and I will continue to take their advice because I can admit that I have never done anything like this before. There is only one way to learn and that is to do it. I have to stop and take off the grill because there is no way that the cam shaft is going to pull out with it in place. Hopefully my manual will arrive before I am ready to go any further.

I usually heat the gear on a hot plate then press it on with a press.


If you take the cam and put it in the freezer for about an hour, the molecules get closer together. Then heat the cam gear, the molecules expand.
When you press them together, it goes together easer.

Update:
After getting the pan off I have had several people take a look and I'm being told that this engine has some wear and burned marks to the crank shaft. In the meantime, I happened to be playing around on craigslist and found a running 235 with some work done prior to a long sit and a smooth shifting 4 speed tranny for $400 so I jumped on it. It came out of a '53 3600. The tranny that is in mine was getting hard to find the gears while shifting. This made the purchase a win win since the new one seems to shifts smooth. My plan is to clean it up, paint it and throw it in using the best of the accessories of both and either keep the other for future parts and or take it apart and work on it. I think it will be a great learning experience.
I have been researching the casting numbers but nothing seems to match. Can you provide some help to see what I have?

by distributor F0212J
Behind starter CON4 B
just ouside of valve cover 3836848 GM 22
under valve cover B290
bell housing K252 GM 3701433
behind vent 3769716
Those unknown numbers above spark plugs B55 848 850 plugs

Thanks for all the help guys. I'll make sure I post some pics soon.

It is an 18 head-bolt engine 1953-1963

B290 indicates 1960 head
B = February
29 = 29th
0 =1960

F0212J
F = Flint, MI
02 = February
12 = 12th
J = standard small truck 235 (C10/20/30 or LD)

None of the other codes gives you the specific year of the block.

See if you can find the block date-casting code.

Wow Tim, thanks for the quick response. I don't know how I missed it but that B was is followed by 11 0 so it's CON4 to the left and then B 11 0
so...? February 11th 60?

firemonkey,

As you probably know:

1960 235 truck engine

B = February
11 = 11th
0 = 1960

By the way, CON4 means Conveyor 4

If this is going into your 1954 truck (and, it is still 6v), use the 54 clutch housing and clutch-assembly parts (and starter, generator, and harmonic balancer).

You will have to do something for the front motor-mount and something with the water pump (you could install a water-pump relocation plate and used your old water pump and fan blade).

Thanks for the the info Tim.
I don't know if you were aware from earlier posts on this thread but my '54 has a 1960 motor in it already. What are the chances? It was switched over to 12v by the previous owner. I haven't measured anything yet but I can't imagine it not fitting as is. It looks to me like the way the radiator sits in the bay was modified to make it all fit. The water pump on the motor on the truck looked as if it needed replacing anyway. As far as the harmonic balancer, I guess I'll see which ones looks in better shape and use that one. Does all this sound right to you? Thanks again.

Yes, it sounds fine.

It is nice if the groove-width in the harmonic balancer matches fan-belt grooves in other parts.

The relocated radiator in A-D trucks with later 235/261 engines was a very common professional and shade-trade adaptation. It does not necessarily result in optimal cooling, but it usually works fine. The old mantras were "it's a truck - just do what's needed to keep it running/working".

It sure does look that way Tim. Not pretty but little hack job for sure but it does seems to work. Not much of a fan on those things either. Blades seem a bit small. Probably why you see some guys go with electric fan set-ups at some point down the line I suppose.