The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 57 6400 with Heil 4yd dump...

Hi y'all-

I've been eyeing this old rig for years as it's sat in the sage brush on a neighboring ranch. They're heading out of state and I got consent from it's owner to fire it up and drive it up the hill.

It looks like html and code are disabled here, so I'll give you links to hosted images.

side view

Heil badge

dash

controls

undercarriage

wheels

tread

It took a couple days of fiddling to get it running, at a hundred feet or so of first gear trolling I dabbed the brake to see how the pedal felt - it went directly to the floor with a sharp whack!
Kept on going anyway, even though there was a curvy and hilly route to my ranch. That years old fuel got me there, with only a bit of sputtering and whining. I landed right where I wanted to put it in a field off our main driveway.

Now I need to figure out how hard to press the owner for consent to keep it. I'm thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of a thousand bucks should do the trick...





-John

Html and code are allowed, but not when you're moderated. After you've posted four times, you can use it.

Inline images are disabled, however.

Thanks for the clarification Paul.

I'm sure I'll have questions on this truck.
First thing I need to do is determine if I'll be keeping it.
I'm fairly certain that if the opportunity exists I'll take it.
I also need to get an idea as to what it'll cost to get the braking system up and running.

Maybe I need to take and offer more photos.




-John

Welcome,FlyingZebra!! Can't tell from the shadow,but it looks like you may be in real luck!If those are tube-less rims,(which I'm pretty sure they are!)(6-hole,6-lug). I'm still using my 10-bolt,5-hole rims,on my '55 2nd-Series 6500.(Bias-Ply) A lot of guys pay Big-Bucks,to swap a set of tubeless rims,and a good set of (RADIAL) rubber.Does the box (Hoist) work? Does the engine "Smoke"? If the answers are yes,and no,You're well on your way. The guy I bought my truck from,was"current", on parts-prices,knowing the cab would sell for a Grand,by itself. I paid $2,000,for mine,and didn't have much "wiggle-room",to squabble. I still need to finish my brakes. Front cylinders ran about $70.00/ea,and new stainless to the M.C.,and the cross-over,to the right "Splitter",ran about another $25.00. Both rear hubs have TWO wheel-cylinders. I haven't priced the lines,(rubber included),or the Dual-reservoir master-cylinder,but figure about the $500.00 price bracket. I've got over 4,000.00 invested,(over the purchase price),so I'm going with a dual-reservoir,just to be safe,and PROTECT my investment! If I were to up-grade to a V-8,I'd probably go for a disc-brake up-grade,as well. Hope this helps. Again,WELCOME,and more pic's,please!! Nice truck!

looks like 20" tires on 3 piece wheels to me, not tubeless. If they're 22.5" tires they ought to be tubeless or can be, and will be on single piece wheels.

Grigg

Bill-

Thanks for the comments.
I'm hoping to keep the initial fee on this one low.
I want to get it to daily working status for us here on the ranch.
As it is, any/all tin would need great effort to get anywhere show condition.
It's got great character, and it has need for lots of attention.
As things progress I'll feed more images.

On your rig, congrats on your mu-tater!
I'd really like to get ahold of an old tanker or fire service truck.
Perhaps some day...



-John

Those wheels are 20" 3-piece.
The engine is an inline-6.

I never got out of 2nd gear on the way to my hill, not sure what gearbox it has, but the rear end appears to be electric.

Keep the questions coming, I'll surely learn more about it as I pick along the project.




-John

Wetwilly,

The electric shift on the rear indicates it's an Eaton Rear which was optional...has nothing to do with the transmission selection.

The Clark trans didn't show up in Chevrolet's until 1959.

The optional 5-speed for the 1957 6000 series is the New Process trans, they got the SM420 4-speed as standard issue.

FlyingZebra...my guess is you'll spend about $750-800 for a complete brake system with you doing all of the work. You don't want to do it half way...replace ALL of the steel and rubber lines as they rust and break down from the inside out. Rebuild the Master Cylinder and Hrdrovac. Buy new wheel cylinders and lines, re-line the shoes and turn the drums if needed. Don't forget to check the bearings and put new seals in while you have the hubs off.

Mike B

Thanks Mike-

Your estimate is right around what my gut said I'd have to pay for parts to make the braking system right.

BTW your brush fire rig looks fantastic. Good on you in going the proper direction in your 'restoration' project. I'd really like to find a similar machine for our high desert wildland hills location. Looks ideal.
Is there a low-slung water tank in there?




-John

Got under the truck last night after feeding and penning the animals.
Inspected the parking brake (prop shaft drum) and found plenty of friction material, might have to remove the ratchet pinion plate and weld up some teeth, might just have to knock a few decades of gunk out of the teeth that are there.
Definitely needs adjustment.
Looks like a brand new clutch - clean and thick. Very happy about that.
Also found new front hard brake lines and other new brake components, including new bleed nipples all around.
That was nice to see. Need to find out where the brake fluid went.

Got a call from the (soon to be previous) owner, got consent to buy it.
Here goes..!





-John

Congrats on getting the truck!

If the Hydrovac unit is bad the brake fluid can fill up it's canister.

My brush truck did have a 400 gallon water tank laying flat in the botton of the bed. I think it was about 16" tall, so the center of gravity is low. I've talked to guys that drove my truck when it was in service and they said it never let them down and whould go anywhere in snow or mud. I have to finish my current project before I start on that one...

Mike B

Thanks Mike


I'll look at that hydrovac unit tomorrow.
I've looked at a service detail here on stovebolt, it looks fairly simple.
The fluid leaks into the large cylindrical chamber?
Where will I find the hydrovac unit on the truck?
Will it be in the engine compartment or will I find it down by the frame rails..?

Let me know when I need to cruise out to pick up that little wildland fire rig...





-John

Hi! Your hydro-vac will be under the passenger-side of the frame-rails.,toward the back of the cab. you've seen the "Service Detail",so you'll know it when you see it(Looks similar to boosters on fire-wall-mounted dual-reservoir M.C's.) Master-cylinder is located under "driver's'-side floorboard,with an access-cover,to add fluid/inspection. Hope this helps. Congrats on the truck-GOOD-LUCK,and please keep us posted! THANKS!!

Thanks Bill-

I actually found it this morning when I got home from work.
It was on the outside of the driver side frame rail.
Might put some photos up here of what I found.

So if there's a brake fluid leak into the hydrovac, I might find fluid inside the big chamber..?
Looks like simply loosening the three long cane bolts should get me in there.
I need to further review the hydrovac service details here on the 'Bolt

Will I find a service manual PDF for this truck on the web anywhere?
I saw one for earlier trucks. Must search...




-John

John,

You are correct...the J bolts need to be loosened to split the canister and see if the fluid is leaking there. These units are still available from NAPA. It's been a few years since I bought one but I remember it costing about $270.00 and I had to turn mine in as a core.

As for my brush truck, it will be a neat truck when I'm done restoring it. I have a few pictures of what it looked like when it was in service so I can rebuild as close as possible to the way it was.

Mike B

Thanks Mike-

Remember, I'm here for you when that little wildland rig becomes a burden -- when the weight of the project has you pinned between a rock and a hard place I will come to your aid and take the burdensome project far far away...
:-)

On the hydrovac, here are photos as-found this AM
It looks like someone has been there in the relative recent past.
Not sure that's a good thing, but we'll see.

vac unit
vac unit
vac unit

I guess I should also at this point consider the dual master cylinder update I've seen discussed here on the site.
Sure there's a bit of reading to do on that topic.
Do you have any idea of what the cost of that kind of project will be?




-John

John,

Don't hold your breath on getting my truck...lol.

If you decide to go dual pot MC, make sure you get one that designed for the big trucks. The ones sold for the 1/2 ton trucks by all of the vendors have a smaller bore size and they don't push the correct amount of fluid (making the pedal travel longer than normal).

Mike B

Mike-

Just letting you know that there's support for you here in Northern NV



On my 6400, I have to identify exactly which hydrovac I have (I think...) -- evidently there should be a tag with a number somewhere on it...
If I can get a rebuild kit and it's not very expensive I'll likely start with the hydrovac and run the thing.
Still haven't figured out where I'd source a rebuild kit - and I'd prefer sooner than later. Still picking through BigBolt brake discussions and tech articles here on the site.



-John

John,

Check out this company...

http://www.precisionrebuilders.com/pdf_catalogs/VacCatalogPHB-0398.pdf

I don't know it they sell parts, but they do show the Bendix Hydrovacs on page 2-9.

Give them a call and let us know what you find...

Mike B

John,
You could give Geoff at Alretta a call. My experience with him has been very positive, his knowledge is impressive. He called the part numbers of the brake cylinders for my GMC 450 off the top of his head. He can probably set you up with most anything you need.

http://alrettatruckparts.com/

I called Alretta.
He assured me "...that these parts are not found in the wild..." and that a remanufactured unit would run me $369.00 plus ninety bucks or so core charge, that he's got a pipeline on the only source for parts etc.

I told him my local shop had a couple of these on the shelf for $250.00 each -- he seemed pretty surprised.

Fresh HydroVac in hand today. Will likely install it tomorrow.
More news to follow as I create it...



BTW, wifey has named this rig 'Lucille', says I should have a sign painter get the pinstripe brushes out and tattoo the old babe's name on the tin somewhere!






-John

I like the name!

Mike B

John,
Dang, I'm surprised. Glad you took the time to check around. Geoff was a few dollars cheaper than our NAPA on all the parts I checked on from him. But with our corporate charge account I don't pay shipping on stuff from NAPA so they ended up being a tad cheaper. Only thing was he had everything in stock and what he shipped was here in 3 days, the stuff from NAPA took like 10 days.
Good luck,
Scott

Scott-

I would have liked to get a rebuild kit, but couldn't find one.
The call to Alretta was in search of parts.
My local guy also noted that parts don't seem available, only remanufactured units.
I made the decision to seize the opportunity to purchase and took the off-the-shelf item. At $120 fewer dollars than Alretta and no shipping it was a no-brain choice.

If this unit works out I'll post contact information for others to pursue in case they need a new hydrovac unit too.




-John

I bought a rebuilt hydro vac for my 450, also. The local parts rebuilder didn't have a kit, but his distributor in NC did.. The place in NC also had a rebuildable core in stock so he had them rebuild it and send the whole thing. It might depend on the exact hydrovac, but I wouldn't think they "don't exist in the wild anymore", there's too many of them out there.
Good luck and keep us posted. I'm about to go through the brakes on my 46 and I know I need a hydro vac, so any resource I can use, I'm all for it.
Scott

Scott-

Reno Brake Inc is the place where I found my hydrovac unit.
They handle all sorts of obsolete braking equipment.
Vintage/HotRod is in the culture out here, lots of old iron on the streets year 'round.

I have yet to bolt it on, there's 25-35mph wind and snow outside today. Not really inviting condition for a creep under the rig.

I did however find insurance for about $100/year.
Limited mileage, but seems affordable enough.
Might get this thing rolling sooner than I'd thought!





-John

On OUR "links" page,fellow 'Bolter,Bob Burgoyne,has a lead on hydrovac over-haul kits! he also has step-by-step pic's and diagrams,of the re-build on his Mid-60's era 2-ton dump truck! Check it out!

Thanks Bill!

I saw that, and with the fresh unit on the local shelf (now on my truck) I'm in the pink. Got it in there today, Lucille went down the hill into the valley and back to the ranch today.
Sweet!

Few things to go.
I really need to find a good schematic on my Eaton 2sp shift motor and wiring at the rear end. Can't find wiring lugs on the shift motor or elsewhere near the rear end, want to get it shifting too.





-John

O.K.,a bunch of digging,But,I FOUND A NEW electric (Eaton)relay 2-speed switch,on "E-Buy"! Part#115610-G.M.#-1#15510807. It covers 1956-1966 Chevy's and G.M.C's,in case anybody's interested.Looks like the switch/motor schematics may be covered in the "Spicer"? service manual-EA-29.Good-Luck!!

There's another 2-speed (Eaton) motor on there as well,listed for 1958 G.M.C 370,probably covers more years,(and trucks), than listed. Unit looks like yours.(Flying Zebra) Only wire shown is the ground wire. Looks like the other two terminals are protected by a side-cover,fastened by 2 screws.Sent you a P.M.

Be careful about the old style Eaton stuff on eBay. A lot of it is Chinese of very poor quality. There are still of NOS parts out there. A lot of them are under Ford or International part numbers because they used a lot more electric Eaton and there were a lot of small town Ford and Internationals that kept a lot of stock on hand.

Good point,crenwelge. Unit pictured next to origional "Eaton" box,it was shipped in.Looks to be "origional equipment replacement".

Bill-

A good look at the photos in that eBay item listing gave me nudge to take this shifter unit off the 57 as I warmed the wagon up for the ride to work.
Pulled it apart here during a break tonight.
Was dry inside, but with rust scale, bearing was frozen, contactor pivot/wire lugs were busted off, one (tiny thin little) contactor return spring was corroded and broken, insulators for wire attachment screws were cracked and nearly absent, and the ball screw was crunchy.
That ball screw shaft and ball nut (big coil spring driver) is quite cool. It features a ball cutoff flange at either end of it's travel to eliminate self-destruction in the event of limit switch failure.
Both the ball screw and the cartridge bearing cleaned up in Kroil bath. I can get the motor control to work too.

If I get this back on the rear end and the 2-speed shift inside the diff works, I'll likely just buy that eBay unit.
Looks like I can get the hundred bucks out of it in functional value.

Next hurdle will be the front end.
Took it out for a 3-1/2 mile jaunt to the mailbox the other day on the local dirt roads - steering is loose (excessive steering wheel play) and the truck darts around in the ruts and rough spots. I'll look at the leaf spring bushings, and I'll check inflation and tire diameters. I could use a point in the right direction for tutorial on adjusting the play out of the steering gear box.
Also a point in the right direction for a source for ball joints etc on this steering rehab job...




-John

Got the Eaton 2-speed shift motor unit going back and forth.  Contactors ended up being too fragged to deal with so I temporarily wired a momentary pushbutton switch alongside the plunger switch on the gearshift lever.
Select Hi-Low then press button to momentarily energize circuit.  Simple and quick work around...

Bolted it up on the rear end and took it for a test drive - success!  The rear end shifts.

I've found replacement contactor sets on eBay, pretty cheap too.  I'll order parts and do it right soon enough.

Now to do a fluids list and budget, and deal with the front end.
I've already looked at the axle, springs, and kingpins.  Looks pretty tight, might just be tires and alignment...

John-there was a really GOOD thread on this same subject about 6-months ago.I'll see if I can find the author,and the exact page it's on...

Thanks Bill

Shift unit rehab was a success, rear end now shifts as it should.
I'll be ordering some small parts off eBay for the electric shifter unit to make it last the long haul.

Now I need to figure out what will be the best fluids for the old 261 and the gearboxes and rear end. I'm thinking that motor wants some good cushion in the oil pan!

Front end looks sound, might just be alignment and tires.

I'm looking forward to seeing whatever discussion thread links you can provide.

John- This is quoted from oldchevys.org..."There are two adjustments,(steering-box),the worm bearing tension,and the mesh adjustment." "Jack truck up,so wheels/steering may turn freely". "Safety First!" (You know)."Jackstands." O.K. "The worm bearings are adjusted by loosening the big lock nut,then turning the bearing housing". "On '59 and older trucks,this adjustment is at the bottom/front of the box". "Usually a hammer and a blunt punch will loosen the lock-nut". "The bearing should be adjusted to get a few inch-pounds of drag,on the worm gear,(steering wheel), but you can adjust it by tightening,to remove the play,then tighten just a little bit(?) farther,and tighten the locknut securely." "Then,adjust the gear-mesh" ."This adjustment is a slotted screw,with a 5/8" hex locknut". "Get the steering centered,(wheels straight),and loosen the locknut". "Gradually tighten the adjusting screw clockwise,while frequently checking steering play". "This is done by turning the steering wheel back and forth a turn or two". "Make sure wheels and steering-wheel are centered when adjusting". "Eventually,you will take up the slack,un-less gears/bushings are REALLY worn,in which case,the adjusting screw will go all the way into the box" "(NOT GOOD").Ya think?(L.O.L.) "Tighten until all the slack is removed,then add a 1/2-turn of pre-load to it."If adjusted correctly,you should feel the steering get just a little bit harder as you pass through the center of the steering wheel's travel". "Tighten the locknut securely,and enjoy the new feel of driving your truck".You need STEERING-gear lube? Part # (G.M.)1052182"Oil is too thin,and will leak-out.Grease is too thick and won't properly lubricate the recirculating balls." "This is the RIGHT STUFF,for your steering-gear-box." Hope this helps. Good-Luck!! Thank-You goes to the author, Jim Forbes. I just copied his article.(www.chevy/trucks.org/tech/steering_box_adjust.htm)

Thanks again Bill

A step or two a day, I'm making progress. Today was fresh filter and crankcase oil, gearbox oil too.
Checked diameters and pressures on the front tires. Same diameter, but low pressures -- 24psi and 30psi. Tires ask for max at 75-85psi
Might just air the buggers and see how it feels from there.

Great piece of shop tech there. I'll definitely run the check and adjust and lube the box. I've heard John Deere cornhead lube is also excellent for the steering box, and I have ready access to Deere fluids and lubes.
King pins and ball joints appear to be good. Cross a finger!



-John

Something got my attention - but only for a moment this weekend while getting the oil filter ID number off the engine...

...well the first thing that got to me didn't really hit home until this morning.
The spin-on oil filter was at the front passenger side of the engine, right next to the distributor.

Take a look here.
Is this a 292?
engine passenger side
engine driver side

Getting the engine running has been the least of my issues on this truck. Really haven't had to give it much thought at all. Years ago when I ground-up built a 235 for my '51 I'd built quite a relationship with the engine bay. On this truck not so much. Been fiddling with other things -- and today I'm wondering if this is really a 261
Doesn't the 261 have a centrally located distributor?

I looked at the VIN plate on the driver side A-pillar yesterday too. It appears to have an extra character.
V6B57010**** is that 0 after the 7 supposed to be a capital letter 'O'..?
Is that V supposed to indicate a V-8 engine at original build? Just wondering about that. If so, that means the bellhousing etc would also directly take a small block V-8 or this motor if it's indeed a 292.
I'm most ineterested in figuring out what the inline-6 is for now.



-John

Your Chassis Serial Number breaks down as follows;

V6B57010

V = V8 engine
6B = 6400 Series
57 = year
O = Oakland Assembly Plant
xxxx = Unit number starting with 100001

Looks like a 292 to me...

Mike B