The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop TBI on a 1959 235

Your engine and install look great! Keep those updates coming.

Just what I was looking for, thanks!

Thank you! It's fun, but definitely slow, I am sure many of you can relate.

Quick question for you guys, what should my spark plug gap be set at with this TBI setup?

.040
Run the GM factory coil.

I just want to clarify, the GM factory coil that came on my '59, or from the era of the TBI?

The TBI coil.
The coil must match the ignition.

Got it, thanks!

Did you get the TBI working? John

Sorry for not getting on here lately. I have been bogged down by body work and life. I have not given up, but I have not moved much forward either. Hopefully soon.

I am happy to say that I am within a couple of weeks of being able to work on the TBI again. Truck is painted and being reassembled. Front clip is nearly installed. Next will be the windshield and hood.

Progress shot:

[IMG]http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums...-B8B1F940A34B-14736-000013659EF0A527.jpg[/IMG]

I am now in the proces of gathering the remaining parts I need for the TBI swap. I just ordered a cheap ICM from eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150866825243?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

I figure for the price it is easier then trying to pull it from the junkyard.

Thursday I am heading down to the junkyard and I intend to pick up the coil and bracket from the TBI donor. I will also be looking for an HEI distributor from an early 80's truck with the 250 6 in it. If I find a good HEI candidate I will grab that and do the following mod in lieu of getting the coil from the TBI donor:

http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/hei_conversion.htm

After I have the distributor I will have to disable the vacuum advance because the computer will be controlling the timing.

If it has a vacuum advance and you will be disabling it, then you'll need to disable the mechanical advance also. It will be under the plate where the ignition module mounts

Roy and others, would it be possible to use the original distributor with this swap? I would source the coil and ICM elsewhere. I guess my concern is the signal to the ICM. My understanding is that there are supposed to be two wires from the distributor to ICM. The stock distributor, however, only has one wire as far as I can tell.

Kevin,
I think we talked off line but just to cover your options.
1. You can use the HEI GM distr. The mech adv gets locked down. the vacuum adv simply gets disconnected. If no vacuum it doesn't move.
But the rotor/reluctor phasing still needs to be set. You can do this by rotating the vacuum adv plate in the direction of the shaft rotation until the phasing is correct and then drill and tap for a screw to retain in place.
2. You can use the HEI distr that is sold on ebay and perform the same conversion. The distr is made for your engine so all you need to modify is the mech adv and the phasing.
3. You can use your stock distr and perform the conversion I have outlined in the injection forum on binderplanet.com
You can use the mopar or the ford magnetic/VR pickup and reluctor.
I have performed the conversion on the IH 6cyl delco distr which also can be swapped for the GM HEI distr so i know it is almost identical to your stock distr.
I have also converted the studebaker 289 delco and a couple others.
You can not, however use your stock distr or any other distr without performing the required modifications to enable full timing control by the EFI system.

Here is the GM HEI next to the stock distr.

[img]http://www.binderplanet.com/photopost/watermark.php?file=12849[/img]

Here you can see what it looks like installed.

[img]http://www.binderplanet.com/photopost/watermark.php?file=12820[/img]

Here is the stock IH distr converted for EFI.

[img]http://www.binderplanet.com/photopost/Data/834/DSC02074_640x480_.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.binderplanet.com/photopost/Data/834/DSC02097_640x480_.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.binderplanet.com/photopost/Data/834/DSC02105_640x474_.jpg[/img]

Here's my initial TBI install on my IH 6cyl.

[img]http://www.binderplanet.com/photopost/watermark.php?file=17142[/img]

Even my oil bath fits back on it with an airfilter spacer.

[img]http://www.binderplanet.com/photopost/watermark.php?file=17143[/img]

hmmm have to figure out the trick to posting pics here.

Bill,

If I were to do the DS conversion which relict or would I use? I noticed that the two conversion you used were for 4 or 8 cylinders. Also, you mentioned in one of the write-ups that you often grab several base plates at the junkyard in case someone else needs them. Might you have an extra that would work for my application?

I missed that autocorrect, I intended to ask which reluctor would I use?

Both ford and AMC used the ford duraspark distr on their 6 cyl's so the reluctor from either can be used. Just look up an early to mid 80's 6 cyl.
You need to check the ID of your distr. If it is the smaller delco then you are better off with the mopar pickup mounted on the stock baseplate and then your choice of a mopar or ford reluctor.
The mopar reluctor has a larger ID then the ford.

If you go to binderplanet and look in the "start here" injection forum FAQ's you will see many different distr's converted for use with EFI. 4, 6 and 8 cyls.

Here is the studebaker 289 prestolite distr.

[img]http://www.binderplanet.com/photopost/watermark.php?file=17461[/img]

[img]http://www.binderplanet.com/photopost/watermark.php?file=17462[/img]

[img]http://www.binderplanet.com/photopost/watermark.php?file=17479[/img]

I don't have a 235 stock distr on hand or I could tell you what parts would be best for the conversion.

Would this work for the Mopar pickup?

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/_/N-9ci82?itemIdentifier=113829_0_0_

AutoZone also has a dual pickup which is part number cr117. Is there any benefit for having the dual pickup?

CR101 is what I see for the reluctor. I picked a 1983 Dodge truck with the slant 6.

If I were to look Ford would it be best to be looking for something with the straight 6 300, like a mid 80s fullsize?

Much cheaper on rockauto.
You can get the pickup and the 6 cyl reluctor cheaper than just that pickup.
I rmove the pickup off the advance plate and mount it directly to the base plate.
The reluctor you chose, mopar or ford will depend on the shaft diameter or you ability to turn the shaft on a lathe to fit.

no need for dual pickups. This isn't dual points.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?ck[__utma]=162940351.1117538671.1348515383.1348515383.1348515383.1&ck[__utmz]=162940351.1348515383.1.1.utmcsr%3D%28direct%29%7Cutmccn%3D%28direct%29%7Cutmcmd%3D%28none%29

I looked up some of the various 235 distr's on ebay.
If you have the small stock points distr like this one.

http://www.binderplanet.com/photopost/watermark.php?file=17493

Then i would recommend looking at this distr conversion.
The distr looks very close with the exception of the lower shaft.

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=799563#post799563

Thanks! I just ordered the pickup and both reluctors on Rockauto for $14 after shipping.

Yup, looks just like that Bill. I will take photos as I do the conversion.

I should point out that for those reading this..... the same distr mod can be performed for use with a carb.
Just leave the mechnical adv operational, although hopefully you have cleaned and lubed and set the proper adv curve.
Then when done you simply grab a GM HEI 4 pin ignition module and mount it on a small heat sink like a 1/8"x1.5"x5" piece of alum and bolt it to the coil hold down bolt.
Connect the distr leads to the G and W terminals and the coil + and - to the other 2 terminals.
I recommend a later GM TBI coil or the ford TFI coil for a little boost.

You will now have the same ignition as the big cap GM HEI for about $20 in junkyard parts.
Best part is all the parts can be found at any store or junkyard unlike some of the aftermarket ignition swaps.

The pertronix works but if it goes bad you are stuck converting back to points while waiting for your replacement to come in the mail.

Got to work on the truck a bit more this morning, and more specifically I got to focus on TBI stuff. All of the harness reworking that I had done from the donor TBI vehicle paid off as I began to hook things up. I got a bunch of it connected and bundled. I will put wire loom over all of it when it is done. [IMG]http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m537/kjhibbs99/Apache%20Rebuild/7D9F71EB-390C-4E9A-A87D-ABB6DDB7D571-4928-000007D9C847A300.jpg[/IMG] I also got my parts from Rocksuto today for the distributor conversion. I will start that soon.

Have been chipping away at the dizzy.

Started disassembly:

[IMG]http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums...F-DBB8CC1F6BE3-5483-000008E699B477CA.jpg[/IMG]

Advance plate and weights:

[IMG]http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums...6-DE4F9008307D-5483-000008E68ABA46A7.jpg[/IMG]

Weights removed:

[IMG]http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums...8-3D10655BC87C-5483-000008E67B3E8D73.jpg[/IMG]

Points lobes turned down and ford reluctor with set screw:

[IMG]http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums...E-13F843C800FF-7378-00000CCD7B251056.jpg[/IMG]

Looks like that distr turned out to be exactly the same inside as the IH distr.
That makes it's easy to follow the conversion write up!
One thing to note is you may want to trial fit the cap and find the best place to mount the pickup so it is in between the ribs on the cap. That will keep you from needing to clearance it like I did on mine.

Good work Kevin. You must have your own lathe.

Nope, no lathe. I had a local machine shop turn it along with drilling and tapping the reluctor. They charged me $25, and it was well worth it.

What should the air gap be between the reluctor and pickup?

I have been making good progress on the dizzy.

Points hole cut for the pickup wiring:

[IMG]http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums...-43B3ADFEB4DD-13442-0000161C9C9BA227.jpg[/IMG]

Shaft tac welded in:

[IMG]http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums...-EA43B876D99D-13442-0000161CA8FB9C12.jpg[/IMG]

Pickup in place with holes drilled and tapped:

[IMG]http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums...-EE1ED85380C8-13969-0000171C73FB0432.jpg[/IMG]

Reluctor and pickup installed and waiting to set the air gap between the two:

[IMG]http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums...-6B7D2DB29CEA-13969-0000171C53BA37F0.jpg[/IMG]

It's looking good Kevin.
The normal gap is .008.(brass feeler gauge)
But with these old distributors I try to just set them as close as possible without them touching.
I push on top of the shaft towards the pickup to take the play out and then set the gap.

Alright, the gap is set and I believe the phasing is correct. Here is a shot of the finished product:

[IMG]http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums...93-7998-00000BAEB2D5DC21_zpsc5a2fcf7.jpg[/IMG]

And the gas tank installed:

[IMG]http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums...41-7998-00000BAEBDD055EF_zpsd4e5b60a.jpg[/IMG]

I do need some advice in finding TDC on a non-running engine so I can appropriately set the timing with the dizzy. Any thoughts?

That looks great. If I understand correctly, you used a mopar pickup, a ford relector and a chevy module?

I belive top dead center is when the intake valve closes. That is the way I am sure on a non-running engine.

Yup, mopar pickup, ford reluctor, and a Chevy ignition module. I will pull some part numbers together for you.

Thanks, that would be great!

The reluctor is a Duralast F106 or BWD RE6 (from a 1986 Ford Bronco with the 4.9l L6)

The pickup is a Duralast CR103 or Wells CR103 (from a 1982 Dodge D150 with a 3.7l L6)

The ignition module is a Wells DR140 (although I got a Herko branded one from eBay for like $11) (from a 1993 Chevy C1500 1/2 ton 3.7l V6 TBI)

The Chevy that the ignition module is from is the same vehicle I sourced the TBI and harness from this install.

Fantastic, thanks!

Would the Rostra 250-4165 work for my VSS if I just use two of the magnets?

Nope.
If you read thru the VSS FAQ on the binderplanet(I assume that's where you got that part number) you will note the Rostra for RWD uses 1 magnet and for FWD vehicles it used 2 due to the gear reduction. But you will need to install and log data on your vehicle to verify.

But IMHO, depending on what you are paying for that one, you would be better off with the recommended JTR 2PRS VSS.
If you are also installing an aftermarket cruise control and it came with the Rostra pick up then I would run it. But if you are going to buy a VSS just for the EFI then go with the JTR unit.

HTH.

I know this was from a while back, but this is what I am working on now. I do have a ballast resistor, so do I basically remove it from the system now and go directly to the 12v switched? Here is a pic of what I have. Notice the green wire, it is supposed to connect to the starter motor resistor terminal and then jumps over to the + side of the coil. But I don't think I have the s terminal on my starter. Anyone?

[IMG]http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums...17-5897-0000077784694E98_zpse5847841.jpg[/IMG]

Full 12 volts.