The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay 58 Apache-Starter won't do anything and coil too hot to touch

I have completely restored my 58 Apache with foot start, EAGER for a test drive, but to no avail. The engine started and purred a few months ago, but now, when trying to start it, nothing happens. I replaced the starter (but when bench tested the old starter and the new one work fine), new battery, replaced ignition switch, new battery cable, new ground strap (to bare metal w dielectric grease) and last night realized the ignition coil is too hot to touch. I appreciate any help. New coil next?

Hy JayCone58Apache, do you have a ballast resistor mounted on your firewall, the igniton wire from the ignition switch goes to one terminal on it, and the other terminal is the one that the wire to the distributor connects to. Without that resistor and the key left on and the points closed the coil will get very hot. If I'm remembering correctly on your truck the ground cable connection is right behind the battery on the firewall, then lower down the firewall under the battery is another connection point for another ground cable to go out to a starter mounting bolt, without using these connection points the cab may be isolated from ground, hope that helps.

I have the resistor on the firewall (a new one) with a green wire on top and brown wire on bottom (new stock wiring harness), battery ground strap from battery attached to cab body and starter ground strap attached to cab near the starter (both sanded bare and dielectric grease). Maybe the resistor is shot? The mystery to me is that all of this worked great when we started the motor for the first time a few months ago. Thanks for your input.

I'd clean off the dielectric grease and retighten the grounds - dielectric is non-conductive

Bill

That figues... I bought it and used it thinking it enhanced conductivity. I'll give that a try.

Thanks for posting this, Bill. People regularly suggest using dielectric grease for enhancing conduction - they should look that up.

I use (and recommend) an anti-oxidant (and anti-corrosive) highly-conductive copper-impregnated grease that is available in all NAPA stores. many other people suggest similar highly conductive and highly anti-oxidizing greases used by electricians (and needed by code when using aluminum wiring).

I leave it all nice and bare, shinny. After bolting it up, I use liquid tape. Dielectric "grease" is used in the aerospace world (my world) to seal connector shells against environment or in the automotive world (my world) to seal spark plug boots and to be able to slide boot on and off. And it's used in many other similar places. If it was conductive, it would arc the pins of a connector or arc the spark plug to the engine metal. In all the ground connections we did on aircraft components, we NEVER put ANYTHING on the connection. Nothing is better than "intimate contact" as it's known. You can't "enhance" that on a bolted join! We did use internal and external tooth lock washers. Party on! (Wayne's world)
You do need to clean and redo grounds but if it started and ran already that way, I think you also fried something? Of course, all you have to do is trace the hot from battery to switch, coil, starter and see where it isn't.

I am about to head out to the truck and try all of this. When it did run a few months ago, there was no dielectric grease. That brilliant move was recent... Wish me luck. I appreciate all of the input.

No luck. Cleaned all the dielectric grease off of everything, re-sanded ground spots and re-attached ground straps (sanded the straps a little bit, too). Starter doing the same thing, nothing. The new ignition switch and the other ignition switch that was in when the motor started and ran a few months ago are both spring start but I don't use the start position. When I turn the key to the on position, the ammeter jumps to the left of center a little bit and the fuel gauge jumps a little (gas tank nearly empty). The coil starts heating up, but not quite as hot as before, and when I push the foot start button nothing happens. The longer I leave the key on, the hotter the coil gets. I had a small adapter wiring harness that they sold me with the new ignition switch, but I removed it before all of this tonight. The coil seemed to get hotter with it in place. Headlights and tailights look great, turn signals work. None of the wires or anything else feels hot, just the coil. Same result if I turn key to spring start and push the foot start pedal.

pull the + wire off the coil until you figure out the not-cranking, no sense frying it [heating up usually means the points are closed] ... sounds like you have power everywhere and if the + cable is connected directly to the starter, then it has to be a starter problem .... could be a bad starter, or it could be the push switch on top of it isn't making good contact, which is the first possibility to check, just pop off that switch and look at the large copper contact and spring in there - if it all looks good you need to bench test the starter or have it done

Bill

Thanks.

Do it the old school way, push it till it starts. Starts up?, runs good?, cool coil? It's the starter/plunger. But you did say you just replaced them. Maybe got a bad one, it happens. Won't start? Slap a coil on her. As I stated, you need to run a hot test on the ign/start/run wiring. Get an ice pick voltage tester for $5. Are you sure the stomp starter mechanism is actually pushing on the switch that Bill mentioned? If you nudge it forward in 3rd it should open the points unless the mounting screw is loose.

Thank you. I am anxious to return to it.

A lesson for the other rookies out there... Sorry not to post any earlier, I only get to play with my truck in spurts. The reason the engine wouldnt start is because it had seized up. Broke my heart. I had it rebuilt about 20 years ago, then mothballed the truck until we started back with it about a year ago. We cranked it up and it ran beautifully and we ran it for about 3 minutes. Apparently, the head gasket had turned to dust and the cylinders mustve gotten coolant in them and then the engine sat for another several months to the point when I was inquiring here why the starter got hot, but engine wouldnt crank. Upon inspection, we discovered the pistons had rusted to the cylinders. I have had it rebuilt again and it now run$$$ beautifully. It wouldve been prudent to not run the engine, replace the old head gasket and then run it. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch.