The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline lousy auto repairs?

hey guys, so i swapped my third member in my 53 burb, set the pinion angle and called up some guy off Craigslist to weld my rear end. I googled his number he looked like a legit small buisness.

"STAINLESS STEEL WELDING........PORTABLE TIG / Argon Gas.......ON-SITE REPAIRS
No Sparks,,,No Smoke
Small and Large Jobs
35 YEARS EXPERIENCE
Insured
COMMERCIAL RESTAURANT... Weld Repair And Fabrication Are My Specialties.
----Tubing, Rod, Sheet Metal---
We provide Grinding And Polishing
Portable Plasma Cutting
Steel And Iron Arc Welding
Bicyles, Carts, Trailers...DON'T BUY NEW!!!!!....FIX IT FOR LESS!!!."


I explaned what Needed to be done. he set up ,welded them both in about 15 min, he complained about the rubed and i asked what i could do, he said "well nothing now" went ahead and welded it, charged me $100. Said it was guarentied for a year. I filled with gear oil and took her for a spin yesterday, made it around the block a few times, and all seemed good. I took it up to the store three block away, doing about 15 or 20 mph, ga-ga-ga- clunk, . the weld failed, pinion dropped, cracking my pinion where the u bolt retainer goes( the new retainer was all bent now) thew my new drive shaft out the back, putting a gnarly gouge in it, shatterered my ujoint. and who know what elese..


I called him and he said. " well, uh, i told you that the rubber was giving me a hard time"

Which he did, but he said he could weld it, it was just stinky, and more difficult . I took this as " I wish i didnt have to smell this, and its harder" not, " my weld wont hold, i know this, and you should aswell , but im gonna weld it anyway, knowing its bunk,, tell you its ready to go, charge you a hundred bucks, then tell you 'I Told you I didnt like the rubber when you tell me it failed' "

today he said i need to get a torch any get the rubber out. I said I dont know how to weld that why i called him, and that if he knew thats what needed to be done why did he do it to beging with. he said a propane torch has nothing to do with welding, am i supposed to go buy a torch and torch my rubber off ,then he will come back and weld it again for free..


im going to be out another 400 bucks or so after fixing damage cause to my vehicle by
the neglegence of someone who claims to be experenced, and insured. should i ask him for like 300 bucks so i can fix my drive shaft, ujoin ,pinion,and then have someone else do it? take him to court? I reall dont want him weld my car again, i want my money back and some help with the damaged parts.

what do u guys think? whos liable? what should I do

man this I why I always work on my own stuff, guess I gotta lean to weld now....

Did you have him weld up the pivot on a former torque tube housing or did you have him weld new perches on an open drive housing? I don't understand the part about "he complained about the rubed".

Hey,Charlie!! Happy New Year!! I think Drew was trying to type rubber,but I don't know if he's talking about the rubber in a carrier-bearing,or what. I know I'd be MAD if I had that kind of lousy job done on my truck,especially if the guy "claims"he has insurance,and that much experience!! One trick that I saw on "youtube",may work better for you,Drew,than having to go buy a propane torch,as long as you have an electric drill. Find a drill bit a little smaller diameter,than the rubber. Drill all the way around the circumference,spacing the holes as close as possible,making sure not to damage,(drill into), the surrounding metal). Using a hammer and screw-driver,pry the remaining rubber out of the bearing. By rights,since this "pro" messed-up in the first place,I'd have him fix his mistake,as well as remove the rubber! He should have known better. Since he "CLAIMS" to have insurance,he should repair and replace EVERYTHING that was damaged due to his negligence! If he refuses,or does another shoddy repair,THEN contact a lawyer proficient in small-claims,and then he'll wish he did the job correctly in the first place!! GOOD-LUCK!!

You might not want to hear this but you asked.
Welding is just like painting or many other procedures. The
final weld is only as good as the preparation, just as the
final paint job is only as good as the work to bring it up to
the point of laying down the paint.

If the area to be welded wasn't cleaned and prepared properly
then you shouldn't expect it to be a solid joint.

Had it been me I would have told you this and explained that it
had to be prepped correctly before I would weld it.

Try to imagine what a performance would sound like if none of the
musicians spent hours preparing before they went on stage for their
three minute performance.
My opinion, both of you were in the wrong. You for not doing
your homework and him for laying down a bead that he knew may
be questionable.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Craigs List, swap meets, shops, is like buying a bag of apples, bound to be a bad one in the bunch eventually! Consumer beware! Yes, he should of told you it "needed more prep work" or at least stated "he could not gaurentee welding it as is". A good professional would have prepped it correctly before he ever started! Honesty, nowdays, does not mean what it used to. "He simply took the money an run" I would get a lawyer and "run after him"!

Amen and Amen. The reason he took it to someone else was because he was not "qualified" to do the work. Thats why he took it to a professional.

...I'd ask him to "right his wrong" and if no satisfaction then I'd invest in a $50 consultation fee and find out how to proceed. Its not just the 100 bucks he's out but all the other damage.In some cases, and I have done this here in S.C., you can do a small claims type deal, and go before a magistrate/judge without costing you an arm and leg. A few years ago it cost me $50. I got satisfaction.

If the guy "gets in your face about it" I'd notify the BBB, a letter to the editor, and anything else I could do... .just for my own satisfaction. I've spent money just to prove a point!! We do not have to put up, or take such crap and its time folks PUSH BACK when wrongfully taken advantage of. I still say the very first sentence in the quote above says it all. My .02....

Drew,as I stated in your other post,there is rubber bushings in the pivot area.I used a standard screwdriver and a hammer to dig it out.
My friend that welded mine stopped right away when the rubber caught fire and dripped out.I didn't know there was rubber in it.
Did he weld both sides of each pivot right and left pivot ?
My friend took a three hours welding them up solid with a stick welder.He used a lot of welding rod as well.

I tend to agree with Denny on what he thought of your situation.

Did it ruin the drive shaft ?
Can you take the drive shaft back to the maker and see what their evaluation is ?
I bet they can re-balance it like new.

Tim

What the heck is this pivot you are referring to?

IF a carrier bearing that is one thing.
ALWAYS know exactly what you are doing when welding on any bearing housing.

I would take this project to a driveline shop

Dan Bentler

This is the pivot area of an original torque tube rearend. pivot points
When installing a 55-62 1/2ton pumpkin(third member)into an original torque tube housing to achieve an open driveline.The torque tube is no longer there to hold the pivot angle of the rear end.You have to set the pivot angle,then weld the pivots up solid.If you don't,the rear end will turn and the drive shaft will fall out.

Tim

I don't understand how the rearend remains stable when you take the rubber out, in preperation. Is it not supported by the rubber? Does the welding involve the washers?

...hey, just cut the old pivots off, get a set of perchs, set the angle and weld the perches. Then use a set of U-bolts.

Fred,there is a bolt that is horizontal that keeps it all together.
I was instructed to peel as much rubber out as possible,it leaves a gap on both sides.It gets filled solid with weld,no washers.Every spot that moves is welded up solid.I have several thousand miles on mine,no troubles.

Alvin,you are correct,he could cut them off and do some grinding and install perches.But,I think he still would of had trouble with the guy that did his welding,resulting in the same situation.He needs a guy that knows how to weld.

Drew,I hope you can recover some of your loss from the guy.

Drew,what kind of welder did he use ?
Can you post some pictures of the welds ?


Tim

I wouldn't let the guy near the truck again. He has done enough damage.

It sounds like miscommunication and lack of knowledge all the way around. For a weld to properly penetrate its key that the area be properly prepped. The guy doing the welding should have better understood what was going on also before he started welding. The guy that did the welding shot himself in the foot and set himself up for headaches by not knowing what he was trying to accomplish. As far as getting the welder to pony up $$ for the damage that is going to be a tough call. Did he have a signed job ticket saying what was expected of him? I'm not sticking up for either with this because I feel there where errors on both sides of the fence. I do feel bad seeing a guy having his hard work damaged and causing more work.
As Tim suggests, post some pictures and maybe guys can give you more information.

Mike mahoney of Dynamic Metal By Design,



Hey its Drew Vigil, the guy with the 53 suburban whos axel you welded a few days ago. As I told you on the phone, the weld you performed on my 1953 chevy suburban failed, causing my pinion to chip, u-joint to break, and my driveshafted is badly marred, these are just a few of what I know is damaged, there might be other things I cant see (i.e. rear end prolbems?)



You told me when you welded it, that " It would haved helped if I had taken the rubber on the swivel off before hand, and that the rubber stinks and is a lil more difficult to weld. " When I asked what I could do and you said, " well nothing now," and you went ahead and welded it, told me that it was as good and solid, charged me $100 cash, and left.



When I called and told you that your weld failed, you said " well I told you that rubber was giving me a hard time."
Which you did, but you said you could weld it, it was just stinky, and more difficult . I took this as " I wish i didnt have to smell this, and its harder"

not, " my weld wont hold, i know this, and you should aswell , but im gonna weld it anyway, knowing its bunk,, tell you its ready to go, charge you a hundred bucks, then tell you, 'I Told you I didnt like the rubber when you tell me it failed.' "

You then told me I had to get a torch and burn the rubber out, then you would re-weld it again.

If you knew it wasn't going to hold why did you weld it, tell me it was safe, and charge me $100 for 15 min of work.

After cousulting counsel, I would like to ask for a refund of the $100 I paid, as well as $150 to help pay for the damages caused to my vehicle, due to your neglegence. If this dosent seem fair I will pursue the matter futher in court. you claim your company "Dynamic Metals By Designs" to be insured, and it looks like if you knew that your weld wasent going to hold, and that The rubber bushing needed to be removed prior to welding, but went ahead and welded it, charged me, and told me it was good, then Im sure a judge would find you neglegent.

Telling me " man this rubber stinks man! iTS DRIPPING!" IT NOT THE SAME AS, "WELL , its not gonna last but im going to do it and bill you and tell you its solid"

you'r the expert with 35 years experence, not me. If I had called someone else out and they had either refused to weld it, or " heated it up with a torch, and dig it out", as you told me to do yesterday, then I would not be in this situation.
Therefore, I am formaly asking for my $100 back as well as 150 to help pay for repairs. I dont want you to weld it, I just want it fixed correctly.

I hope to hear from you soon, thanks again,

Drew vigil


and he replied


1st of all, my name is Mark not Mike.
2nd....I asked YOU where you wanted it welded...I did just that......
If YOU didn't want me to continue AFTER I mentioned all the rubber, YOU should have "made the call"
You looked at it......you paid.

Threatening me with legal was not the way to go.

I am willing to re-emburse your 100.00...... that is as far as I will go.

Also, at the end of your "nice and judgmental letter" you say you don't want me to weld it, just fix it.
Hey, I'm a welder not a mechanic, which I also made clear.
You "Made the call" in all aspects.
Well, I offered to come back to weld it all the way around, but you felt that, by being an opportunist
was the right way to go and you recanted on me coming back.
Now, AFTER you "nice letter" you recant again.
Instead I get a threat and nasty statements.


and I spent 40 minutes there, not 15 min's ,and the gas and time to get there.
If you respond "positively" to my offer to re-embuse, I will send you a check for the 100.00
That is as far as I will go.

Do not call...just e-mail...that's it.
I will only send a check if you respond positively to MY offer.
No response thru e-mail...no re-emburse.

....your refund is probably all you can expect unless your willing to take your time, and probably some money, to proceed. Since you ask for 100, plus 150, that letter is what he'll show the judge and that would likely be the most you would be awarded by the judge?
You'll make the right decision...for you.

..and thank you for sharing your story. Right or wrong,there is a lesson here for all of us....even us old timers.

From reading the letter,I gather it wasn't welded solid.
Both sides of each pivot perch have to be welded solid all the way around them.There is a lot of stress,strain,torque in this area,solid welding is crucial,no short cuts can be taken.

I think you should take him up on the $100 refund and chalk it up as a learning experience.

I would take the drive shaft back to the maker and have him check it out.Tell him what happened,he may give you a break.

Did it break both u-joints,how is the front slip yoke ?

Check your gas tank as well,it's only a few inches from the drive shaft.


Tim

I can weld just about as well as any professional. I wouldn't have known there would be rubber in the perches. AND I'm familiar with these trucks. Just goes to show I learn something everyday.

I agree with the idea to cut off the old perches and reweld on new perches. If there is rubber dripping out of the weld, that is a contaminated weld.

Where the weldor went wrong was that he should have said, this is a part I'm not familiar with, I started welding it and rubber is dripping out. He should have gone on to say this is a Band-Aid patch job and the right thing to do is either burn all the rubber out (you do it because I don't want to breath it - and burn it out with a propane torch yourself) but ideally, order new perches and when you have them, I'll come back, torch off the old perches, grind the axle tubes and weld them on after you set the pinion angle. HE SHOULD have said DO NOT DRIVE this vehicle, these welds won't hold. There was nothing wrong with him taking payment. Time is $$$. You're paying for his time regardless; he kind of got a bad job.

Or just put a Nova rear end in. I put one in a 52 3100 20 years ago. It went in about 20 minutes. I used the stock perches and brackets from the Nova and the 52 3100 springs. It wasn't correct, but I drove that way for years.

I had a bad experience with shoddy workmanship from a repair shop when I was 18 years old. It made me so mad that I swore that I would make my own repairs from that day forward. I figured that I could do it wrong for a whole lot less money. And guess what, I did do a lot of stuff wrong until I figured out how to do it right, and I have never looked back. I should try to look that crook up and thank him for leading me down the path that I have been on for the last 37 years.