The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 235 Dipper

I know this is a little off topic (since it involves my wife's daily driver, a '53 Belair),
but I KNOW the expertise is here, not on some other website!

We've got her engine out and open and discovered it's a 235 "dipper", meaning it has cast rods.
We have the choice of a major job of re-machining the beast (problematic since there's no rod bearings to oversize!) or swapping it for a pressurized 235. Anyone have any experience with this process? The questions include:
1) Is the head usable?
2) Are the mounts the same?
3) Any surprises?
4) Reliable sources for blocks?

In case it's not obvious, I'm a little short on expertise in this area. Ask me a computer question anyday!

I promise to go back to discussion of my '66 C20 right after I figure this one out! There's a '64 Belair waiting in the garage for attention too!

I've just done this swap into my '54 Bel Air, which is almost identical to your '53. Send your stock motor brackets to Stovebolt engine co to be modified to fit a '55-62 235. Use them and a short shaft water pump, and she'll go right in place. Very few parts are interchangeable between a '53 dipper and a later 235. I'll post a longer thread when I get time.

chip

JimG, are you sure of what you have? Did you run the numbers on the block to find out what you have? I'm not sure, but I thought full pressure 235's still had oil slingers or dippers. Someone correct me if that's not right. Jacques

I think I know what I've got. There's an oil pump for the mains, dippers for the rods, no oil filter, and the number is "close" to one I found for a dipper. Mine is 3701894 (on crank).

JimG,
what part of the dipper don't you care for? I am redoing my 216 at the moment. I am getting my babbitted rods machined to take inserts. I have bought the inserts and it will be a nice clean installation when I am done. The one kicker is that the old style rods had shims and you could adjust the clearance, given everthing else was OK. Once you switch to inserts, you loose the shiming ability.

Don't rule out ignorance, but I was advised that enlarging the rods to take inserts would weaken them pretty badly. My wife doesn't trust me do do the mechanic work on her cars, so I'm forced to trust her favorite guy. I asked about inserts and he poo-poo'ed them. Can you give me more details? Where, what, who etc..

Her mechanic also thought it would be nice to get an oil filter and better oiling. This car gets about 10K miles a year up and down a two lane rural highway, usually in 40 mile round trips at 65 mph.

Followup for truckernix:

After you put in inserts, how do you get oil into them? Seems like unless they're perforated or something, the inside of the insert will dry out. Again, don't discount ignorance on my part:)

JimG,
the inserts are specially designed for these dipper rods. They have a large oblong hole just like the impression in the babbitt. They are thinner than most inserts so that the machining is minimal. This is a very common way of refurbishing these engines.If you look at Chevs of the 40s, or Kanters Auto, you will see these listed, and the converted rods. However, there is no disputing that these dippers were an ancient design and full pressure oiling is a much hardier system. Chevy was a bit of a hold out in this regard.

As far as full flow oil filter is concerned, the old "bypass" filters are probably not that effective because they are only filtering a small percentage of the flow. The only reasonable way to get the full flow, in my opinion is to go with the more modern full oil flow motor.

The 235 babbit beater was last used in '53 sedans with 3-speed. '53 sedans with PG got the full-pressure 235s. '54 was the first year for all full-pressure 235s, and the last year for 6 volt and exclusive use of 6s in Chevys.

You can have your babbit beater reworked for the aftermarket-style insert rods, & do other upgrades like adding a bolt to the crank pulley. However, you must find a shop that has done it before, if you have it done locally. The machining work that has to be done is specialized, and most local shops will butcher the work unless there is an old hand around who's done it before.

The easiest way to upgrade these cars is to use a full-pressure 235 made from '55-62. Using the custom motor mounts and short shaft water pump, the later engine will drop right in, with no modifications to the car. I just replaced my '54 full pressure 235 with a '60 235, and everything clears. You just have to look at the later 235s before buying, as some '55-57 blocks had the side mounts you'd need, and some don't. Most '58-62 engines have the triangle-style bosses you'd need. You can re-use your bellhousing, starter, flywheel, tranny, linkages, etc. You'd need the engine and manifolds to do the swap. Look in the paper or scour local junkyards, as these engines still turn up regularly, if you look for them.

good luck

chip