The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk I’m throwin’ in the towel, I need help on this one

Okey dokey guys, I can’t seem to do it my self so I’m reaching out to ya’ll. I’ve been
looking for “cloth included” or “fabric reinforced” 1/32” Neoprene and or Buna-N sheet
in small or any reasonably small quantity for a couple of weeks this time. Actually I’ve
been looking for it for this type material for much longer than that. It’s used for a lot of
diaphragms in fuel pumps, carburetors and various controls.
Sure like to have some help on this one. All of the larger wholesale sources that I’ve
contacted by phone or email have said they don’t retail and can’t offer any advice about a
retail source.

Thanks,
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I have a small roll of that stuff, Denny. I can't remember where it came from, been in the shed underfoot for many years. It's 6" wide and about 10' long.

Denny,

Maybe the trick would be to contact a big supply house (middleman) such as Grainger's or Mcmaster Carr and see if they can get it for ya.

Kurt

Found 1/16" and 1/8" on ebay.

Hey Denny - look at this stuff - Mcmaster Carr #8625K21. Listed under "diaphram rubber - reinforced viton".

Give these guys a call. I've worked with them for 30+ years, and they really know their stuff. When I needed diaphragm material for an antique outboard motor fuel pump, they had exactly what I needed.

http://nashvillerubber.com/

Jerry

Sent ya an email Leo.

Really doubt if McMaster would want anything to do with a deal like that Kurt, my local
Grainger won't even sell to me because I'm not a business or am connected with one, no
retail they tell me, in spite of the parent company's policy.

Yep George, found 1/16” all over the place also did find 1/32” in silicone but none in the
black stuff. For the wipers that I’m working on right now Neoprene, Buna-N, EPDM
would all work just fine.

That may be the number of the product that you selected but “diaphragm rubber
reinforced Viton” brings up all of the rubber and foam rubber products page and there are
no 1/32” fabric reinforced rubbers listed. I spent a good while looking at their stock and I
buy from McMaster about once a week on the average.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny,how about these links,will it work for you ?
buna
neoprene
epdm

Denny,when you order from Drill Spot,it all comes from Grainger. www.drillspot.com


Tim

try your local Marine supply store, or shipyard...

How would either bellows material or pneumatic material for player pianos work? It is a rubber backed cloth. I have some of that in several thicknesses. How big of a piece would you need? I could send some just to let you see how it would work.

Right Tim, they are just an out let for the larger hardware suppliers. Drillspot uses the
Grainger inventory listing for all of their rubber products even uses the same model
numbers for the products, for instance;
Drillspot-Rubber, SBR, 1/8 In Thick, 12 x 12 In, Black Model: 1MTT6,
Grainger-Rubber,SBR,1/8 In Thick,12 x 12 In,Black Item # 1MTT6
No 1/32” reinforced sheet material.

That's another source that I haven't tried Roy. Taking a quick look at a couple of
Piano/Organ repair sites such as Steve’s Piano Service. I see they list a lot of “rubber
backed cloth” but again, nothing for cloth included rubber sheet. Steve’s does have
rubberized cloth but only in .008” and .012”. I assume the material that you have is cloth
with one side rubber coated?

Haven’t had a chance to look at any Marine supply sites yet but I will check it out.

So…..ya see what I’ve been up against, I know the stuff is out there but I just can’t seem
to dig it out of the back room.

I was telling a buddy of mine that if I weren’t retired and living on a meager income, I’d
have Ficken do a motor for me and autopsy it when I got it back just to see what he’s
using for the paddle seal restoration. I did notice in one of the pictures on his site
describing what he does to your motor, that he does take the paddle apart. He only shows
the drive shaft and not the seal and plates in the picture. So that tells me that he doesn’t
have a stock of new paddles and that he does disassemble them and rebuilds them using
something that‘s available on the market today.

Well, thanks for tryin’ fellers, the quest goes on but it looks like I‘m running into a blind
alley once again.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

are you sure about McMaster Carr? I order from them all the time. I'm sure you wrote what it is you want exactly, but I gotta go find it...Our Grainger has no problem selling to civilians. I need to go there anyway, I even get a discount for working for the county, if they have what you need I could send it to you, they are basically around the corner from me. By the way have you ever found your 1/8" steel tube you were looking for?

The cloth I have is a rubber backed cloth. I would have to measure it, but I could always send a small piece to let you actually look at it.

Is this going in a fuel pump? Or just what will you be putting this in?

I had an old propane tractor that the diaphragm in the regulator ruptured. Could not find a proper replacement. And the new regulators were a bit steep in price. So I used some of the rubber backed cloth I had to make a new diaphragm. This was about 4 years ago and the tractor still works fine.

Sorry Denny, my stuff is about 1/20" thick, I pm'd you.

Denny,

Think I may have found what you are looking for. Place called Ace Hose. Here is a link to a page of materials. About half way down is a listing for:

Part 8020 - Nylon Inserted SBR Sheet (SBR CI), Cut/Slit to Size 1/32-1/8" thk
SBR rubber with square woven 3.4 ounce nylon plies for durability in dynamic applications requiring extra strength
Excellent stretch, creep, and tear resistance.
Smooth clean finish, free of talc (ideal for PSA applications)
Certificates of Conformance indicating production date and lot code are available on request at time of order
Durometer: 60(+/- 5)
Color: Black
Temperature Range: -20 Deg F to 170 Deg F
Fabric type: 3.4 ounce Nylon
Continuous Lay Line: Includes style, durometer, and lot code
ASTM Line Call Out: D2000-M2-AA603-A13-B33-EA14
1/32in. is 1 ply, 1/16in. is 1 ply, 1/8in. is 2 ply, 3/16in. is 3 ply, and 1/4in. is 4 ply.
Prices are per linear foot
Allow 3-5 days to process stripping orders
Due to set up costs, minimum order for stripping is $40.00 per size

Additional widths available, call for quote.

They list 1/32" by 12" wide for $4.27/lin. ft.

Here are the links:
acehose

sbr ci sheet rubber

Kurt

P.S.

Denny, it looks like Ace Hose is located in Chicago. Maybe 50-60 miles from you? I think they have a warehouse....Looks like they sell to anyone...

Ace Hose

Kurt

Try Hanna rubber Co. in Kansas City, Mo.

Drill spot shows
Buna-n #1xypa
neoprene # 1muz6
epdm # 1myb3

Everything I have ever ordered from them has has grainger printed on it.I typed in 1/32" Buna,1/32" Neoprene, 1/32" EPDM in the search bar.


Tim

Yep, been thru every thing that I can think of on McMaster’s site and struck out as I did at Grainger.
With the local Grainger’s attitude I’ve only bought one item from them and I had to lye about who it
was for. McMaster on the other hand has been getting my business for decades.
1/8 tubing??? Must have been a handful of projects back cuz I don’t remember it, unless it was the
steel oil line?? And yes I did find that, one of the guys from the forum had enough left over for me to
re-plum both my trucks with new copper coated steel oil lines.

Thanks Roy but I don’t thing that would work for what I want it for. I’ve got several projects going on
right now. Been looking for a material to use for the seals in vacuum motors.

I think you might have something there Kurt. Don’t know why they have to hide their address. I looked
at every page that they have on the site and there is nothing about where they are located. They did
mention something about serving the Chicago area and they do have a 312 area code. I won’t be able
to get in touch with them till Monday anyway. That SBR should be good for one of the projects I’m
working on.
Thanks,

Tim again, those aren’t fabric included rubber sheet, they are just sheet rubber.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny,

Here ya go....

map and address Ace Hose and Rubber Co.

Kurt

You might try medical supply distributor.
I found some material similar at the tombstone engravers. Check it out.

Denny,

Are you looking for flat sheet because thats what the application calls for or do you have to form it into a bellows? There's a company called bellofram http://www.marshbellofram.com/Diaphragm/PDF/design_manual.pdf that makes bellows of various sizes. They certianly use the material you are describing and I would bet they would send you a sample if you asked. Or you may find a stock bellows you can cut up. Let me know if I'm on the right track, I have a few other suppliers we use at work that may be able to help.

Duh, never even thought to look in the yellow pages!!!!! Tks again Kurt, you’re doin’ all my leg work
for me, I’m gonna have to adopt you.
I had some of that gravestone mask Hank, I got it a couple of decades ago to sandblast wood when I
was into my woodworking stage of life. Just rubber, no reinforcement there either.

Yeah leader, that’s what I need to do with it, that is form it. I’m not looking to have a production run
made, just trying to figure out how to reverse engineer what Trico did 60 years ago. My main goal is
just to figure out a way we average backyard mechanics can restore some of this old stuff with out
shelling out the whole weeks allowance. I believe the bellows material has to be raw and is vulcanized
when you press it into the mold. I’ve made a bunch of rubber parts from raw rubber by making up a
mold that was spring loaded and baked in my “big old wife‘s” oven, (when she wasn‘t at home
obviously). Now what I would really like to do is find out where I could get a few square feet of the
raw material that the guys making bellow use. But of course I’m never lucky enough to find anyone
that works there and could send me some of their scrap.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny,

If you have a drawing it won't hurt to send it to the bellofram guys to see what a custom mold will cost. You may be surprised at how cheap it is for a small diaphragm. If you need round material they may also sell you round or sheet directly. Did you look through the catalog to see if they had something close or a match?

My company does a lot of business with them so I can also try to call them and get some free/cheap samples of raw material. Let me know.

Might give them a call next week and see if they would sell me some scraps, better yet if
you have connections with someone there that would even be better.
I have a machine shop background and tool and die work didn’t come cheap back then
and I‘m sure it has only gotten worse. As I said, I taint lookin' to go in business, I'm just
an old retired dude with way to many interests wanting to do a little experimenting. Love
to try and make things that are no longer being made available to us anymore and like to
share what I learn with anyone that is interested. Right now it's vacuum wipers, fans and
maybe if I can find a little time and the right fabric reinforced buna-n this winter some
playing around with Carter accelerator pumps.
A mold for a shallow diaphragms like I’m aiming at are relatively simple to make if you
have a lathe and a mill and I have both in the shop. What I don’t have is small scraps of
uncured cloth reinforced sheet rubber in .020“- .032”-.040”.
Tks for keeping it going guys, might be able to get over that brick wall yet.
If I spent as much time on my truck as I do chasing windmills I could have finished a
couple of them by now!!!
Denny G

Okay Denny,

Here's my best shot, these guys sell the stuff and they should deal with you directly. If they don't then let me know and I can call them.

http://www.darcoid.com/includes/sheet--roll-stock.html