The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 216 Engine Rebuild....

OK, so after getting my driveline all working properly, I've discovered there's a lot of front to back play in the crankshaft (between 1/8 and 1/4 inch) Sounds like it's time for engine rebuild or ???

So my question is to rebuild or look for a 235 either rebuilt or to rebuild...

The current 216 runs fine.

So, if I were to rebuild the 216, what are the main areas to look at?

If I were to replace with 235???

Just looking for some suggestions...

Thank you.

Wow! That's a lot of play axial play!
I don't know how much different your 216 is to my 261, but the main thrust bearing holds the crank in place axially.
I would check into this pronto before running it too much, you could really putting some undue work, wear and stresses on the crank, rods cylinders and pistons!
Someone else pipe in and tell me if I'm wrong please!
Jerry

This looks like it might be a good deal to get for a 'swap' ??

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/pts/2846079677.html

Comments?

For $300 - hell ya.

That sounds like a great deal to me!
Jerry

X2 - that's way too much.
It may only be the thrust bearing, but I'll bet it needs all the mains done. This is expensive, so consider a swap.
BTW: frequent cause of bad thrust bearing is constant pressure on the clutch pedal. If you have a choice, a Powerglide engine will have a tighter thrust bearing.

Check your title. If the 216 engine number was used as the "VIN" on your title you'll have to re-title after the swap. Using the engine number was common through '55.

Thanks for all the great feedback. I will check the VIN number vs the engine number.

I also think that $300 for a 235 with the work that was done (IF done correctly) is a great deal.

I'm assumeing it will fit right in place with no changes? IE, 6V generator, 6V starter, flywheel, bell housing, etc.. Will they all work with this? The ad says the engine is a 1948 and was in a truck. I'm not sure when trucks started using the 235?

Thanks.

The ad says that it is a 1948 235 converted to a full pressure oiler. I really doubt that. That process costs a lot of money, if it can even be done. Do you really think someone would do the conversion and then sell it for $300?

Perhaps I would be better off with a 55-62 year 235?

Anyone had any experience with a complete rebuilt engine??/

http://remanufactured.com/Chevrolet_6_Cylinder_Engines.htm

I having my '38 216 rebuilt right now. FWIW it's worth the money to me to keep my '38 with the original power train. It's only original once.

Good point Fred - totally missed that.

It was sold anyway. Was not ment to be. Maybe just keep the 216, rebuild it.

I know there are several things I can do to improve it... Seals, machining, harden valve guides, etc etc. maybe even a fenton dual carb intake upgrade.

argh.. one of those days.

Drop the oil pan and check the thrust bearing for wear before you do much else. It's also possible the crankshaft thrust flange is worn.
Jerry

I guess my point is there is something wrong with the description. I personally don't have anything against the older style motors but the decscription doesn't add up.

David, I absolutely wouldn’t deal with anyone that won’t put any information on their site about where
they are located or who they are or their history or whether they are a legitimate business or just a dealer.
That site just throws up red flags all over as far as I’m concerned.

Now if you are interested in a remanufactured engine, this outfit has been in business for about as long
as I’ve been around. A lot of auto shops that I’ve talked with use their engines for exchange when a
customer needs a rebuild. Although it was many years ago when I was in the service, but I used one of
them my self for my ‘60 Chevy 235 back in the 60’s. When I worked in the auto parts business we
sold Jasper rebuilt engines and I’ve never heard anything bad about them.
http://www.jasperengines.com/index.php

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Thank you Denny. As always, great advise. What I might do is to pull the pan and see what's happening. Maybe I can just replace the trust bearings? I'll get some help to know what I am looking at.

good idea Jerry.

I recently had my 216 under go a full rebuild (new pistons, rings, cam, machine work, etc. For bearings had inserts installed instead of babbit bearings. The cost: $3,500. Hope this helps when you consider a swap. Bob

Very helpful Bob. Did you have the motor out or was that part of the $3500?

We're into page three of the cost for a
rebuild here and $3000 +/-$500 is about
the nation wide average for a complete
engine rebuild with complete head work.
If you're getting it done for anything
less than that then you're not getting a
complete rebuild with all new parts and
they would have to be skipping a lot of
the machine work or you have found a shop
that is giving away their labor.

DG

So far I'm in for just under $2K and haven't paid any labor yet except for the machining of the rods for inserts.

Is this with the engine out of the truck and was that part of the labor, or did you folks take the engine out and deliver it to the shop?

Mine is with the engine out. I'm running up two labor bills. One with the shop pulling and re-sticking the engine and one with the engine rebuilder.

I pulled dis and re assembled everything except the Head and wrist pins FWIW

So I am thinking about just keeping the 216 and having it rebuilt. What should my requirements be? Here's a list of what I was thinking after reading a lot of posts.

Upgrade bearings (rod and main?)
Machine to accept upgraded seals (front and rear main)
New exhaust manifold (one of my flange ears is broken, not sure about the heat riser)
Hardened valve guides (and of course a full valve job on the head)
All new gaskets, clean up and paint
Maybe new water pump (while it is apart, might be good idea?)

I'm figuring between $3000 and $4000 for everything and about 2-3 weeks at a professional shop.

Does this seem reasonable? Am I forgetting anything?

"Hardened valve guides- - -"

I'm assuming you mean valve seats? I'm not entirely sure that would be necessary, but if you want to factor it into the price of the head rebuild, go ahead. Be sure the shop doiung the head work does a good job of shrink fitting the seats- - -a loosely-fitted one can come adrift and wreck an engine. I like to cut the counterbore for the seat about .0015"-.002" smaller than the seat ring, and freeze the seat in dry ice and alcohol to shrink it before it's driven into place. Heating the head in an oven or with a torch helps enlarge the seat counterbore, also.
Jerry

You might want to reconsider the hardened seats. I've read a number of horror stories of an improperly installed seat coming loose and messing things up but I've never read one of an engine being damaged by using stock seats with unleaded fuel. The impression I've been left with by those who know a lot more than me is the only time you need to worry about damage is if you're working the engine very hard, near it's limit, for extended periods.

I agree with Tiny.

So, I am interested to hear others views on bearing inserts and especially machining the rear crank bearing journal/cap for a conventional rubber seal. For sure with a 216 you cannot do the seal unless you do the bearing inserts. But with inserts, the rear main cap is now a fixed dimension when torqued down (got rid of shims for babbit) so it can be machined to a tolerance that will accept a rubber seal.

I think I have this right...has anyone actually had this done?

Mains are inserts originally.
I have concerns about a one piece rear seal on a engine that uses shims on the main bearings. I think it could be done but great detail would be needed to make sure there was no oil path between the inside edge of the shims and the OD of the seal.
If the engine is line bored so no shims are needed than a one piece seal would be great.

I had mine machined for a one piece seal, I also don't have shims. I am actually in the process of installing the engine this weekend, so I won't know how it works for a while. But I do know the rope seals don't work very well. Not like a good full seal does anyway. And $3000-$4000 is not real bad I wouldn't think.

Thanks for all the great feedback. What a great source for information.

So, my choices so far are as follows:

1) Rebuild the 216 leaving the roap seals or one piece seal if I don't have to use any shims on the main bearings.

2) Find a doner 235 and build it the way I want it.. Here's a link to what use to be a running engine.. HOWEVER, I think this is too old and is most likely not a full pressure engine...

3) Spring for a new complete engine to swap. For instance, I did find a place that is offering a complete rebuilt 261 that will put a 216 fly wheel on it, fenton headers, single 4bbl carb, mount the plate behind the balancer and it will be basically ready for my starter and generator. Price... $4500.

I'm still not sure what to do. I don't drive the truck on long trips and still have to do body work on it and install the bed. It's really a solid truck with very little or no rust....

It's not clear to me as what to do yet....

comments?


http://portland.craigslist.org/search/pta?query=235+engine&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=

The cost did not include pulling/reinstalling the engine. One thought on your rebuild is to replace the low-pressure oil pump. You can get a new one at Jim Carters;
http://www.oldchevytrucks.com/
Good luck with your rebuild.
PS: I just posted a question at this site: my truck starts fine when the engine is cold. But when warm, it doesn't start. Any ideas?

What does "doesn't start" mean? It won't turn over or it turns over but won't fire or what? We need more specifics.

I just saw your other thread. Looks like you got some good advise there.

Folks,
I found a decent motor for a replacement.. . The block is 3769716. Owner says was rebuilt 4000 miles ago. Looks to be very complete.

Comments?

Yes! Nice motor. LOL! My question is, can we pull the bell housing off tomorrow? It's sitting on the bell housing for stability. And it needs to be lifted to remove. It needs to have the flywheel removed first. Also will the clutch from the 235 work on my 248? I could use the clutch. That is if you still don't want/need it.

No problem Dan. Keep it together and we will take it off when you get here. I might have something you are interested in for your 46 too!