hi all, have a 216 out of a 52 1/2 ton that is on a stand right now. was seized when i got it and managed to loosen her up. went to try and start it today and with all the sparkplugs in the starter has a hard time spinning the engine. the starter motor actually stops turning after a second or two before i release the stomp starter assembly. without plugs in starter turns it like a champ no problem. tried starting it with only 5 plugs in and she will turn fast enough to sputter some smoke every now and then but thats it. it is really hard to turn by hand with or without sparkplugs in about every 3/4 revolution or so and then nice and smooth for another 3/4 rev. looking for ideas what the problem could be. i thought the piston rings still might be a little sticky since it seems the #3 cylinder and #5 cylinder (best guess not 100% sure)on the exhaust or compression stroke seem to be the two that are really tough to turn. the way i have it set up on the stand is jumper cables to starter and grounded to engine. hot wire to 6V coil and using a 12V battery to power it. really just looking for some direction on where to start troubleshooting and what may be the likely problem. thanks ryan
Since you have the engine out have you removed the oil pan and taken a look at the bottom of the engine? And have you taken off the valve cover and side cover to take a look at the rockers and such?
yep i did. had the oil pan, side and valve cover off. even had the head off just to check the condition of the pistons. it was always tough to turn by hand like i described and i was hoping the starter would be able to overcome that and get it running. didn't see anything when the oilpan was off. the lifters were all good none of them were stuck or sticking. push rods were all straight. only thing i haven't removed yet is the timing cover but i don't think the problem would be there. cylinder walls looked pretty good. no rust where the pistons had been sitting. if it was a bearing it would be hard to move all the time wouldn't it? that's why i was thinking it was the piston rings. pretty sure i am going to have to remove oil pan and etc to figure this out. was hoping someone knew here what the likely culprit is
used a 12V battery with 6V coil. starter is 6V and from what i have researched here it should be ok. actually should turn the starter a little faster. re-read my initial post and it is more like 3/4 turn is hard by hand and about 1 - 1/4 turn is smooth. on monday (son has soccer tourney this weekend and no time) i am going to do some more investigating. gonna mark the crank pulley and start from #1 tdc so i know exactly how many turns i get before it gets difficult to turn and take the head off and see what the pistons are doing. probably will take oil pan off too and see if i missed something.
Mac, forget the jumper cables and set the battery close enuf to where you can use a direct connection straight to the starter, and a good, solid,clean ground, with the shortest cables possible. Should make a noticeable difference. Good Luck,
sounds good will give it a try. i do have a good battery that i loaned to a friend that i can get back to try. i have been "boosting" it off my car cause that is the only battery availble to me at the moment. what gauge wire should i hook up the negative from battery to block? i do have a top post mount battery cable from battery to starter that came with truck but can't remember if the battery i loaned is a top or side mount. if it doesn't work what gauge wire from battery to starter be? thanks for any info
Most 12 volt set up on cars and light trucks is 4 gauge. But the bigger the better. And with the 6 volt start on the 12 volt battery, it works great, just don't sit there and grind on it. Give it a couple of cranks then get off of it.
Just a small idea for elimination purposes. Small chance but try it. Perhaps its your oil pump giving resistance.I should suggest removing your distributor ( that will disengage the pump ) and try turning to see if it makes a difference.
I'd pull the spark plugs and put some penetrating oil in each cylinder to soak things good. Then get a ground cable from the battery to the engine block that is a 0 gauge. Did the motor turn over any different when you had the head off?
thanks for the info Roy. gonna set it up with new wiring and see what happens. gonna try to stay off the starter after a few cranks but man that is hard to do when you are trying to start the engine for first time! especially when she coughs and smokes a little! literally had to leave the garage to pass the time 'cause staring at the engine waiting for starter to cool takes forever!
i will definitely try removing the distributor and turn it over if using new set up with battery doesn't work. thanks for the tip Jianis. don't think i would have thought of that.
Don - turned the engine over by hand with the head off and it was the same. am pretty sure it was #3 and #5 cylinders that were on the upstroke when it got hard to turn. still hoping getting it running and a little hot will help loosen everything up a bit. last thing i did was pull the plugs and pour some penetrating fluid down the jugs. hopefully it helps.
was wondering today what a busted piston ring do? engine was seized and maybe a ring got damaged when it finally let go but i have no idea what the symptoms of busted ring would be. anybody know if i am on the right track here or way off base
Since you had the pan off, you would have seen some broken parts of a piston or ring in the bottom of the pan. Or,, some nasty scores/gouges in the cylinder walls from a broken ring. I doubt if the oil pump would put THAT much of a drag on the motor to where it would be hard to turn over. But,,, anythings possible. During all this tear-down and reassembly, have you checked the timing gear? Dam near all the 216's had fiber cam gears. It only takes one or two teeth off to mess things up!! Theres no timing chain on these, just the 2 gears meshing together. Good Luck,
have not looked at the timing gears. so the cam gear timed off the crankshaft is fiber? will take a peak under timing cover and see what is going on. really should have checked and i can't think of a reason why i didn't. will keep progress posted. thanks, ryan
Don't turn it over without the oil pump, that would be a very bad idea. If you haven't done it already, you should run the oil pump on a drill, with the distributor out until oil comes out of the rocker arm. Because your stiffness repeats every two turns, it must be related to either the valve train or the distributor.
In general if you have a problem turning an engine over by hand, it is a mistake to use the starter to turn it. You can end up damaging the starter and other things.
Don - turned the engine over by hand with the head off and it was the same. am pretty sure it was #3 and #5 cylinders that were on the upstroke when it got hard to turn. still hoping getting it running and a little hot will help loosen everything up a bit. last thing i did was pull the plugs and pour some penetrating fluid down the jugs. hopefully it helps.
I had the same issue, i poured diesel fuel into all cylinders through the spark plug hole's, cranked by hand a couple of times then let it sit for half a week, topped off the cylinders again and at the end of the week, i drained the oil. topped everything off and hooked up a new battery and she spun like brand new
the engine was seized when i got it and got her moving with atf and penetrating oil. never tried diesel (don't own anything runs on diesel). it would definitely be worth a try
think today i will remove distributor and spin pump with drill like was suggested. also going to turn engine by hand with no distributor installed see if that makes a difference.
will keep any progress posted. thanks for all the info everyone. ryan
I thought you were going to turn it over with the starter with no distributor, my mistake. I think some people have used fluids other than oil to free things up. Maybe you will get some suggestions.
delux54panel, you were dead on about using shorter cables to turn the engine over. spun it over no problem and i finally fired it up for the first time. i posted the video on youtube here is the link
also thanks everyone else who helped me out. pretty amazing to hear it running after being seized for so many years. cheers, ryan
thanks. it's pretty cool to see this old engine running again. gonna have a lot of fun tweaking it and hopefully get her to purr along. stayed tuned for a ton of more questions! ryan
Do you know if the rod journels are the issue? This spring I tightened them up on my 30 year since overhaul 216. If they or the rear seal are to tight, the engine will turn over too slow or not at all.
after running it for about 10 mins or so and dialing in the timing and doing a compression check (all cylinders turned out good +- 2lbs of 125psi) i tried turning it by hand again. real smooth with no binding at all. can't say for sure what the problem was but i was hoping that running it and getting everything hot and seated would help. still have to tear it down again 'cause i need new gaskets for pretty much everything. just didn't want to drop a $100 on a gasket kit for an engine that would eat itself once it got running for a bit. thanks again to everybody for sharing their advice. cheers, ryan
