The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop carter carb question

I just rebuilt a carter carb that went on a 1959 235 engine in my '52 3100. Pretty easy to do, especially when u don't get it right!!!! Here's the problem. It starts fine but quickly runs out of gas. I know this because at this point there is no gas squirting into carb.- immediately after it stalls. When I work the throttle, it takes several (6-8) full pumps b-4 gas returns to flow into carb. Holding choke closed does not help. Anybody have any clues where I went wrong on the carb. rebuild? Presently looking at accel pump parts inside carb. Float level checked and looks fine. Something is obviously blocking the flow of fuel.

And yes, carb was cleaned real good at rebuild.

Do a volume test on the fuel pump. With the gas line disconnected, run it into a 1-quart oil bottle or other catch container. Start the engine and let it idle. It should run for 30 seconds or more on the fuel in the float chamber. You need to flow at least a pint of fuel in 30 seconds at idle. If not, check for a restriction in the flow from the gas tank to the pump before replacing the pump. It sounds like a fuel supply problem, not something internal in the carb. I have also seen a sticky float cause a fuel starvation problem, so be sure the float isn't hanging up on the carburetor housing and keeping the needle valve closed as the float bowl empties.
Jerry

Thanks for the reply Hot Rod Lincoln. I doubt it's the fuel pump as it was running O.K. with a rochester carb. Just not very much power so I've read here that the Carters seem a little more responsive, so I am just trying one. ( I know, if it;s power u want, do the V-8 swap!!!) The engine revs once, about 5 sec. b-4 it dies. I can't get it to run longer. Will check timing once engine runs. I remember that the float has a pin that is supposed to go in only one way. I will check that first. The main clue here is that after it starts and dies the carb doesn't flow gas until several stomps on the gas.

Had the wife start it while I held a rag over carb. Almost blocking all air. It ran fine for as long as I wanted. That tells me it's got an air leak since it ran when I forced it to suck more gas with the rag. Probably the base gaskets are put on wrong. Next weekend I'll mess with em and see if that corrects the problem. One question, do the 4 holes/slots on the plastic "heat spacer" go toward the engine or carb.?

Look at the carb base, and you'll probably find that one of those slots lines up with a drilled passageway in line with the idle mixture screw. The proper base gasket will also have a cutout for the same reason. Unless there's a clear path for the mixture, the engine probably won't run at idle. By strangling off the air, you're forcing the high speed system to provide the fuel without enough airflow to make the venturi start working.
Jerry

Some carters have a screen behind the needle & seat that can get pluged up easily. It also sounds like the float level is too low.

The throttle spring pressure over time can wear the throttle shaft/body. Check the wear...in the shaft to throttle body. The fuel needle valve may be the compo/rubber type, and can stick.

O.K. I have the problem in sight but cannot correct it -YET. It is the base gaskets and insulator block that I feel is causing my problem. I don't know the order and position that they are installed. (lesson learned on looking upon disasembly) I wonder if there are multiple gaskets/insul. blocks that fit 235's ? I realize there is a difference from the early 235 and the later model. I just can't figure out how and/or what order these go on. My 1958 "car" manual does not show a picture anywhere of how these gaskets go on. Does anyone have a link or pic of the order of installation? The problem is this- there are two holes on the bottom of the carb and no matter which order or direction of my two gaskets and insulator block- one of them gets blocked. If I can learn the correct order/fit, I think it will solve the whole problem.

I may just have to order new gaskets and insulator block to make sure I have the correct ones.

If the gasket doesnt have a passage from the vacuum hole to the inside of the manifold, cut one. Carter YF carbs dont have much accel pump action unless the engine is running. Make sure you have the diaphram installed correctly.

O.K. I've got a thin gasket that I think goes on first. It has two holes besides the mounting holes and the manafold is "slotted". So where these two holes are is irrelavant since the "slots" or channels provide the holes in the gasket to be just about anywhere and work. Next I have a thick gasket maybe 1/4 inch thick. It has 4 slots, one on each side of the mounting holes. They do not line up with both holes in the carb. I also have the plastic (I'm guessing on the material) insulator block that I figure goes in between the two gaskets. This heat insulator has two slots in it but not any passage that goes all the way through. It is solid on one side.So even if I get the passages right in the two gaskets, the insulator would still be blocking the flow. So here is a question. Does the heat insulator block for a Carter carb. have any holes in it that go all the way through, or do they just have the slots? The pic in Jim Carters of the block looks like just slots. What am I missing or not getting here?

My instructions for my carter said not to put the gasket between the insulator block and carb. So I just ran it without it. All has worked good. I questioned it at first but figured every time I do what I want something messes up so I just did it and all is good.

Does anyone have a picture, or link to a picture, for the correct gaskets/insulator block and order of installation, for a Carter carb. on a 235 motor? I may have the wrong gaskets/block for my application. Just trying to make sure b-4 I spend $20 for something I already have. Thank you in advance.

This is all I have. Got a video as well. But not sure if it will help.

http://talk.classicparts.com/picture.php?albumid=180&pictureid=1569



hope this helps

One size does NOT fit all!

Somewhere in archives, there is a listing I posted as to which YF to use with each Chevrolet year/engine combination.

Use the proper YF for your year, and use the correct CARTER gasket for that specific YF.

Since the aforementioned YF's were designed specifically for replacement, you should have no problems if you stay within the guidelines.

Jon.

Carb king- Is it just one gasket and the insulator block or is the block sandwiched between 2 gaskets? If one, does this gasket go on first or does the insulator block go against the manafold?

Carter built the carburetor to replace the Rochester. Thus you use the original spacer block BUT the CARTER gasket between the carburetor and the spacer. You DEFINATELY have a gasket between the carb and the spacer.

As to what goes under the spacer, I don't know. Some applications have a gasket, some do not. Maybe someone has a Chevrolet MPB and can check.

Jon.

The insulator block only has slots. The slots do not go all the way through to the manifold.
The slots are up/top. Next is a gasket and then the carb.

In your one posting you said your manifold is sloted.
Not sure I've seen one with a slot in it. If that's the case,
then you need to block off that slot with a gasket,
otherwise you'll be sucking air. Do you have a pic of that manifold.

There are different carb base gaskets. The slotted one did not fit my application.
The slots were in the wrong location.
I use the one with holes, not slots. It's a FelPro 9519.
Here's a pic...
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=122521

I have a NOS Carter YF-2100S carb and the paperwork has,
"DO NOT use a gasket between the carbureter flange and insulator."
Not sure why, but some use one on the bottom of the insulator.
The box lists it for a 1953 Chevrolet truck and can also be used on 1953 passenger with some changes.

Thanks guys, I have ordered the correct gasket for the Carter. Yes the insulator block is the same as used for the rochester. I'll post next weekend after I see how it goes. I am confident that this will solve the problem.

Received gasket for 235 from Jim Carters and it did not solve the problem. When all else fails- read the book!!! (aka instructions) In this case it was carb kings list of carb applications. I've got the wrong YF carb for my motor!! According to the carb king, and he should know!!, using the wrong (a 2100s instead of a 3211s) could cause problems. This seems to be my problem. I am installing carb on a 1959 235 engine. The chart that carb king has in the archives (search) clearly shows I am trying to use the wrong carb. LIVE AND LEARN. So I guess it's back to square 1 looking for a 3211s Carter carb. By the way, I now have 3 good Rochester carbs and a Carter 2100s that I will post in the truck parts for sale section. Thanks for all the help everyone, I've learned a lot.

Using a 2100S is not the reason you are running out of gas.

Keep in mind that the 3211S is the automatic choke.

All I really know is that neither gasket seems to be right. Each one blocks one of the two holes in the bottom of the carb. I even altered one gasket so both holes were clear. Still runs out of gas. Now u have me thinking again. I guess I'll open up the carb tomarrow and see if I can see anything wrong. I've done that a couple times already and gas pumps real strong when moving the internal parts like accel pump. Guess I still haven't figured it out. Another thing I will do is reinstall the rochester just to rule out other things. The rochester did O.K. I am just trying to make it better. I'll tell ya'll one thing- that 350 on the engine stand is gettin' mighty tempting!!! Heck, it's got a brand new 650cfm ready to rumble!!!!

I received the correct gasket from Jim carters for the Carter carb. Still does not run more than 5 seconds b-4 it runs out of gas. I can still do the rag thing over carb and it runs fine. So being pretty frustrated by now, I reinstalled the Rochester with correct gasket. It runs fine, no problems. So it definitely is in the carb. not fuel pump, lines or anything else. I thought I had found the problem at one point today. I was switching the short vacuum line from the one carb to the other and found it to be completely clogged. No air or anything could get through. I swear it took an hour of carb cleaner, Kroils, water , air pressure etc. to get it clear. After poking, raming actually, a small wire from both directions into that line did it finally break through. I woulda bet a hundred bucks that was the problem!! And yeah, I woulda been a hundred bucks poorer!!! So after all this I'm back with the Rochester. It's in the idle circuit somewhere but it's still beyond me!! And I'll be %^&*@# if I'm gonna give somebody $197 AND my core to fix it. Outrageous. I'll live with the Rochester. This puttin' around stuff is only till I sell it, after paint, or hot rod it anyway.