The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop question about starting issue, ballast resistor??

I have a 55 3100 with a stock 235 engine. my wife drove it home from the hospital after visiting me and it ran fine. Today went to crank it up and it would not start. The plugs are getting fire and there is gas going through the carb. The truck and engine are all factory expect where I put a pertronix electronic ignition in it a few months ago. I checked the ballast resistor and it is getting 12v through the top and bottom as long as you are pushing in on the foot stomp starter. As long as you are pushing the foot stomp the truck seems to be running until you let off of it. I'm thinking it maybe the ignition resistor. But don't know how to check it with the electronic igintion. I ran a jumper from the starter to the + side of the coil but didn't seem to make a differnce. When I had points and had a problem similiar to this. I ran the jumper and the truck cranked so I knew it was the resistor for sure. But with this electronic igintion would you do the same thing to check the resistor or something differnt? This is the only vehicle we have right now so any help would be great. Thanks for any help in advance

yes the resistor is bad, it's showing 12V when you're pushing the pedal because the starter bypass is supplying 12V to the coil - put the jumper direct from the battery + to the coil + and it should run

Bill

Squeeze

Thank you for the reply and help. I tired the jumper and the truck is still doing the same thing. I took the distribitor off and there is spark. I also checked the plug for spark and it shooting a blue spark. I'am thinking it maybe the ballast resistor. But the electronic igintion works differnt from the points. So maybe that is why the jumper from battery to coil isn't working? I thought it may have jumped time but it was running when parked Sunday and it seems to be turning over fine.

when is there a spark at the plugs? when you're holding the starter down?
the symptom of 'fires when cranking, dies when starter released' means the ballast resistor is open [or a bad wire/connection] - try removing the wires from the resistor and clip them together

Bill

I went out and clipped the resisitor wires together and it didn't help. But while I hold the foot stomp down the engine will run, but let up on the foot stomp it goes dead. I will check to see if the resistor is getting 12v to it again. But I agree Squeeze, it has to do with either the resistor being bad or a broke wire some where in between. if I can't find the problem that way. I will take out the electronic ignition and replace the points.

I went out and checked to make sure there was 12v to the + coil. With the ignition on I used a meter and grounded at the battery and touched the + side of coil there was 12v. I then re checked the ballast resistor by grounding to the screw to the fire wall and touched the top post of the resistor and there was 12v. I then did the same check to the bottom post of the resistor and had 12v there also. Just doesn't make sense to me why the truck will only run with the foot stomp engaged. I even tried by passsing the resistor and still the same issue. Could it have something to do with the pertronix iginiton I put in the distribitor? Wife said it ran fine when she parked it the other day. I also changed out the coil and still the same problem

Hy tracern1, I doubt the Pertronix has anything to do with the problem, the fact that it runs in some circumstances would tend to say the Pertronix is doing its job. I would check the ignition circuit with an 1156 bulb or a headlight, many a circuit that reads fine with a digital meter actually has very little amperage capability. From what you describe I think the bypass circuit fed from the starter is the only part of the circuit that is functioning correctly.

3B

thanks for the reply and I agree with your advice. I called pertronix and they said they didn't feel it was the pretronix either. So I'm going to replace the ballast resistor first and give it a try. That way I will know for sure if it is the resisotr or not. Then if it still doesn't start I will go through the wiring from the ignition switch to the starter. When I first got out of the hospital Sunday I still was feeling pretty rough. But today I feel a whole lot better and I'm ready to tackle the job and get the old truck up and back on the road. Thanks for the help and I will post back when I get the truck fixed.

It could be in the ignition switch. The bypass circuit is provided through the switch to the coil eliminating the ballast resistor for 12 volt starting (Ign 2). When you release the starter it switches over to the ign side of the switch (Ign 1). If there is a problem internally it may not get power to stay running.
Fred

boy, that is a strange problem..to just pop up out of no where

rfs56trk

Yes that could be the problem also. The ignition is original to the truck. I'm going to go over it this weekend and check.

Joker
your right is is strange the problem poopoing up that it did. My wife said she drove it to the hospital to visit me then drove it home no problems.

Not applicable to a 235 with a foot operated starter.

I was thinking that too..

sounds like the problem has something to do with the starter..

does the starter stay in gaged all this time

what happens if you try push starting..

I asked a friend about this

and his reply is

There should be a bypass wire from the starter switch to the coil, and the normal ignition switch wire thru the ballast resistor to the coil. Sounds like it's getting the bypass voltage, but not the regular ballast resistor voltage. check the ignition switch, and switch wiring.

Thanks for the help Joker will do that first thing in the morning. Hotter the a 4 balled tom cat here. So the only time you can really do any work is early in the morning or late in the evening

about to get hot here, only 107 right now

i thought the ballast resister was used to prevent the points from burning up prematurely.do you still need that resisor in the ignition curcuit with the pertronics system?

sounds like you should use a internally resisted coil with the pertronics system .thanks for the clarification,thats why i love this site even an old dog like me can learn something.thanks andy, btw went on pertronics website it states operating range for 12 volt system is 8-16 volts wouldent a resistor placed before the distributor bring it below the spec.?

I have been running the truck with the pretronix with the ballast resistor. You can run it with out the resistor if you use a coil with internal resistor built in and by pass the resistor. I went ahead and used the original type coil and resistor because I already had a coil on the truck that needed a external resistor. The truck ran great up until recently. And I'm pretty sure that Joker is right about something being wrong in the ignition wiring. it is probably a easy fix once I find where the circuit is broke at. I'n just about recovered from my hospital stay. So I will have the truck up and running. I will post what the problem was after I fix it. That way if someone else has the same problem hopefully it will help them out.

I have a update on the problem. I found that the 2 dark green wires that go to the coil were broke right next to the connector. The wires looked like they had been cut the break was so clean. But I'm sure it was due to the wires being old. Anyway I'm going to hook them back up to the switch and give it a try.

Cletis,
Please take a look at the wiring diagram for a 56 truck with a 235. Also check out the rear of the ignition switch. It does in fact have an Ign 1 and Ign 2. The Ign 2 is connected to a terminal on the foot starter which gives 12 volts for starting.
Fred

the bypass hooks to the resistor 'output' along with the 'full time' connection, it's doing just what is said, bypasses the resistor temporarily .... foot start ign switch wiring, although there are different switches and the foot start switch isn't reproduced

Bill

Okay got the old truck up and running (after blistering the tar out of my thumb). I found the 2 green wires on the ignition switch connector were not making connection to the igintion switch, fixed those, still didn't start. I then replaced the pertronix ignition with a newer model 1168LS. The newer pertronix model does not require a magnet and took about 10 minutes to replace.. The "LS" stands for lobe sensor so you don't need a magnet. The truck then started right up the first time I punched the foot stomp. I believe that I made the problem worse from the get go. I believe to begin with the problem was just the 2 green wires being snapped away fron the connector that plug onto the ignition 1 terminal. The 2 dark green wires go here both attach to the same connector. And the 3 connectors are all hooked together that plug into the back of the ignition, they are ign 1, ign 2, and start. The 2 dark green wires were broke right at the connector and the other 2 wires were holding the 2 against the connector so you couldn't tell they were broken. the reason I burned my thumb was using a jumper wire to check my wiring (before I found the problem) When I turned on the key the wire started to arch out. I went to try to take loose the clip from where it was arching and found out that it doesn't take long for 12v to heat up and blistered the crap out of my thumb. My guess is when I grounded out the wire it burnt up the pertronix ignition. So I learned 3 good lessons from this the first being I should have listened to the wife and waited to start fixing the truck until I recuperated from my hospital stay cause pain pills and electrical system repairs don't mix. The second one is 12volts will heat up a wire quick. And the third one is don't assume anything when it comes to old trucks. I forgot to mention that the ballast resistor was not the problem. And I thank you folks for helping me out getting the old truck up and running again. This is a great forum with a whole lot of nice folks. I hope it stays here for a long time.

then why is IGN 1&2 shown on the diagram I linked from the assembly manual [55.2] and the shop manual? as in the 55 diagram from Keith's manual site

Bill

With all due respect a original 6 cylinder ignition switch does have a ign 1 and 2. The ignition on my 55 2nd is original to the truck. And the truck has the orignal foot stomp starter also.

I took the original switch out of my 56 when I converted to a V-8. It has the Ign 1 & Ign 2 connectors.
Fred