The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Did GM sell the 235 design to Toyota

I read somewhere that GM sold the 235 motor design to toyota? someone at work bought a 83 land cruiser and the six it has looked alot like the old 235,it has some features that made it look like it would fit in a old chevy truck better than a 55-62 235. Toyota changed the waterpump and made it higher in the block and shorter than the 55-62 design,full flow oil filter system. It looked like it was designed to accept a more modern bellhousing so those expensive adapters would not be needed to adapt a modern auto trans or a modern manual trans. This motor even had two bolts to hold on the valve cover like a 216 so a valve cover from a 216 might be made to fit,the distributor and fuelpump were in the same location as the 235. I dont like the ideal of using a toyota motor but if I build another pre 55 chevy truck I might look into the toyota motor and I think it can be made to look like a old 235 very easily and maybe the 235 speed equipment might bolt on. Just a thought and if I can look at one out of a vehicle to investigate thouroghly and it looks like it will work, one of those motors might power my next chevy truck project.

Jeff,
I've heard the same rumor. I guy i know said that the exhaust manifolds were the same. Perhaps the engines are very simliar. Hopefully someone knows the answer.

Back about 1970 my dad told me that Chevy had sold a six to Toyota, and that the six involved was the one in a Land Cruiser a family friend drove.

I have no idea where my dad got his information, so I imagine he could have been wrong.

The aluminum V-8 that GM built in the 60's was sold to Rover and was used for many years, perhaps is still used, by Rover. That one I'm sure of, so the story about the six rings true whether it happened or not.

About a year ago I recall reading a pretty involved thread about this here on the 'Bolt, being true.

Here is the URL for a past thread here at the 'Bolt on this:

http://www.stovebolt.com/bboard/cgibin//ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=004427#000006

The Topic:

Topic: New 235???

If the URL does not work... go to search, search in the 'engine and driveline' forum - with keywords: toyota gm 235 sold

I also read an article in... I believe it was 4 wheel and off road... sometime in the past 18months I want to say, where they mentioend some details about the old toyota trucks that used this engine as well.

In that thread it was also mentioned that the Soviet Union swiped the 235 design as well and used it in some of their military trucks. The reaosn this came up is someone was on, or had been on an old military base or something and there was for some reason old soviet truck iron around... I forget the details. However, they said 'gee, that looks like an old GM I-6' so they went to the parts store, got soem 235 parts and got it fired up.

I think it is time to accumulate all of the information about this and compile a tech article.



-W

That offroad mag was about doing a TBI conversion to a Landcruiser. All the hardware was basically from an S-10 with 4.3 TBI. I have the mag somewhere, I want to do this to my truck later.

I'd vote yes. I own a 1972 fj40 Landcruser and have interchanged the starter, with a chevy. I started a post "junkyard myths" a while back, and got a few replies that chevy sold the rights to produce the drive train to toyota. I'm thinking of putting the landcrusier drive train into a 51 or so pick-up, but thats still in the thinking stage.

I would like to more closely look over the toyota six and see what improvements were done that could be adapted to a 235 or if it can be made to look like a 235 easily and use one on my next project or if the 235 in my 37 dies. From what I seen so far is I like the waterpump design and placement in the block and a full flow oil filter system and possibly a better bellhousing mounting surface cast in the block. Tomorrow I am going to crawl under the guy at works landcruiser and investigate more thourghly.

I got another one: I knew this guy....trained Scotish mechanic. He saw my now long gone 70 chev. pickup and said the same engine, I6, was used in a Volvo. Supposedly, they were purchased from GM. I dunno. Ya hear a lot of stuff.

I checked out the internet for FJ40 engine stuff, the oil pump is vaguely similar, has a bolt down boss instead of a pinch bolt, the distributer drive looks the same,the head gasket appears to have round holes instead of the odd shaped ones on a 235, so the head design must be different, and yes the starter looks very similar.But it seems the Toyota Stovebolt is prone to engine siezures and spun or "burned " bearings, many reports of engine failures.Better stick with the original Stovebolt.

The Toyota in line six is NOT a stove bolt...Chevy inlines are stove bolts.PERIOD.!!...The truth be known and lord knows we don't want to say anything bad about Japan ..well ...anyway...GM was building Chevrolets in Manila in the Philippine Islands in the 1930's..When the imperialist thugs took over the place they of course inherited the technology of engine and truck building...They simply took the 216L6 design back to their plants in Japan and copied it for mass production..The bombed out factories the allies found in 1945 proved the point...After the US Army took control of Japan it was decided that the Japanese were to start policing their own to some extent..That called for a "Jeep" type vehicle and since they were already building a Chevy six copy it was best to carry on with that..When Japan started exporting vehicles in the 1950's it included the Toyota built Land Cruiser with Chevy six copy..They never changed the old design much up into the 1970,s or when production stopped..GM did not sell Toyota anything...ever..when it comes to the old inline...If a Land Cruiser ever had a 230-250 style engine it too would be a copy......The Land cruiser engine didn't last all that long..They had tried to use the old babbit rod system with moderate updates......We changed dozens of them over to 292L6's ..Only after completely redoing the terrible designed wheel cylinders. etc..Someone even thinking about installing a Toy in line..( I use the word "Toy" loosely) into a classic Chevy truck is like putting the darn cart in front of the horse...The days of classic American Chevy trucks is long gone...The ones we keep in shape..restore and use should be kept American as much as possible..........................................................The V-8 engine that Rover used for a while was pretty much a copy of the Buick "Nailhead" built between 1953 and 1966...GM never built it from aluminum..That was the limeys brain child idea...There was a rumor for years that GM sold the design to Rover but has never really been documented...Some so called expert authors have said just that but GM has never said yes or no...Another one of those great designs that just fade away... :o

[QUOTE]Originally posted by inlineal:
[QB]The Toyota in line six is NOT a stove bolt...Chevy inlines are stove bolts.PERIOD.!!...The truth be known and lord knows we don't want to say anything bad about Japan ..well ...anyway...GM was building Chevrolets in Manila in the Philippine Islands in the 1930's..When the imperialist thugs took over the place they of course inherited the technology of engine and truck building...They simply took the 216L6 design back to their plants in Japan and copied it for mass production..The bombed out factories the allies found in 1945 proved the point...After the US Army took control of Japan it was decided that the Japanese were to start policing their own to some extent..That called for a "Jeep" type vehicle and since they were already building a Chevy six copy it was best to carry on with that..When Japan started exporting vehicles in the 1950's it included the Toyota built Land Cruiser with Chevy six copy..They never changed the old design much up into the 1970,s or when production stopped..GM did not sell Toyota anything...ever..when it comes to the old inline...If a Land Cruiser ever had a 230-250 style engine it too would be a copy......The Land cruiser engine didn't last all that long..They had tried to use the old babbit rod system with moderate updates......We changed dozens of them over to 292L6's ..Only after completely redoing the terrible designed wheel cylinders. etc..Someone even thinking about installing a Toy in line..( I use the word "Toy" loosely) into a classic Chevy truck is like putting the darn cart in front of the horse...The days of classic American Chevy trucks is long gone...The ones we keep in shape..restore and use should be kept American as much as possible..........................................................The V-8 engine that Rover used for a while was pretty much a copy of the Buick "Nailhead" built between 1953 and 1966...GM never built it from aluminum..That was the limeys brain child idea...There was a rumor for years that GM sold the design to Rover but has never really been documented...Some so called expert authors have said just that but GM has never said yes or no...Another one of those great designs that just fade away... ...........................Volvo inlines were Volvo..Period............Finding a GM inline in Russia could be true....The United States involved Russia in the Lend Lease program in WW11...That included trucks..Studebaker built a very large number of trucks destined for the USSR along with some Chevrolet and GMC..They built a special train track thru Iran to the coast where the ships unloaded the trucks for Russia....After the war and since Stalin and the commie way didn't allow anybody to own anything the trucks were mostly destroyed so none had a chance getting into private hands..And since Stalin never bothered to pay for all of them he couldn't have western influence running around either..Rumor has it that some people did steal a few and buried them...After the fall of the USSR a few years back some of the GM made trucks have surfaced...I saw a 1970's built Russian truck for sale recently that had a military front design unlike antyhing else but the cab was definetly Studebaker......There ya go.....

Inlineal is right. There may be some things on the Toyota '6' that look like a 235, but little if anything will interchange. Those engines are not any better than a '235' built by GM. We had a LandCruiser in 1966, and it was low geared and wore out engines just like a GM. Valve jobs and rings, just like GM. Parts are high, and as soon as we could get a SBC put in we did. If I were to keep a vintage '6' truck running I would work with the newest 235, or upgrade to the 250 with 5 mains, and it will spin a lot faster than the 235. It will stay GM. If I wanted a 'fake' Napco a Toyota front/rear axles would work. They look beefy like Napco, they are narrow so they fit under an early truck without sticking out too far.
They have '6' lugs and could pass for a stock 4X4.

The first Cruiser was the BJ, and it had a 4 cyl motor. The 6 cyl F motor didn't appear until the fj25, which was in the late 50s. The F is sort of a metrified 235, and it did not have full filtering until the 2F in 1974. The *F motor lasted up to 1988 when it was de-stroked and EFI'd into the 3FE. It became a DOHC, 24 valve 1fzfe in 1993 with an aluminum head and 7 main bearings.

WT good points, I might add one clarification . . . the 230, 250 and 292 all have 7 main bearings.

inlineal, GM did indeed build an all aluminum 215 cube V-8 in the early 60's. A Buick style nail head and a version looking like a Olds V-8 even turbocharged in the F-85

I should of known that it could of been a copy as the japs have always done,the sewing machines at work are a jap exact copy of a singer. Oh well it was just a thought.

Uhh,
Buick actually did produce the 215 aluminum V8, and olds used it too as the "starfire". It was not a variant of the Nailhead at all, it was a very small block and had high revving capabilities with a short stroke. GM did sell the design to Rover, who copied it verbatim and then started modifying it. I've seen a couple of Jeeps with this engine swapped into it.

Sorry, Tony, I guess we simulposted.

I once saw video of a 215 buick V8 turned into a chainsaw. Would cut thru a 4 foot dia tree trunk in 12 seconds.

My son is very big into Land cruisers. Yes the engine was copied from a stove bolt but the clever jap's metrified the whole thing. made some changes and called it there own.
Japan does not have to buy a engine from GM, they just go find a truck and copy what the need.

Remember shortly after WWII all those products coming from Japan, most of it where copies and on top of it they Named the indudtrial area USA. This way they where be able to put the sticker on MADE IN USA
Look at some of the old cameras. They even copied the famous german camera LEICA. They had the nerve to even copy the lens mount that you where beable to interchange the lenses with Leica lenses.
I never seen a <metric stove bolt> so lets don't call the Toyota engine a stove bolt it might be a <Hibatchi> or what ever the japanese call ther cooking facitities.
My 1 ton truck is 50 years old and barely had any rust on it. Even it was parked for 20 years outside on a farm. You look at some of those Landcruisers. 10 years old and there is no sheetmetal left, just rust. Why where those cruisers brown painted. That way the rust did not show as early.
I am always joking about that with my son. The body parts on a landcruiser is Hitlers revenge
The germans sold the old U-boats to the japanese for scrap and they used the steel to make car parts.

Yeah you guys are right about the GM aluminum V-8 but it was never considered a Nailhead....All real Nailheads were cast iron built up til 1966....

If you guys want to see a 215 V-8 in action, come on down to Logger's Playday where the "hot saws" rip right through whole trees. They had a 215 there this year plus small **** V-6 and Harly V-Twin saws. It takes two burly guys to hoist these things. The Playday is always the Saturday after Labor Day in Hoquiam, Washington. Show starts at 6:00 p.m. at Olympic Stadium althought the noon parade is well worth attending too (lots of log truck action there).

Tony & 4onthefloor are correct. Olds also had 330 Jetfire, Rocketfire & a couple other aluminum engines.

i have a 1964 land cruiser with the 235 look alike engine.the original engine sticker on the valve cover calls it a f135.over the years we have used many 235 parts on it.

That is difficult to visualize....

JunkYardFrog --

Just imagine a bare motor mounted sideways in a tubular steel frame. Two handles on each side. Output power is connected to a small gear that spins a high-speed, high-strength saw chain running over a four or five foot bar. The whole apparatus is started by a removable starter. Once the thing is warmed up nicely, two guys on either side hoist it, throttle it way up and plunge the bar into a log laying on its side. If the RPMs are up there steady, it will literally cut through the log like a hot knife through butter. It's a pretty exciting thing to see the wood chips fly while flames shoot out a really short exhaust system. The operators always place an upright chain-link fence section in front of the saw just in case the saw chain breaks. The whole spectacle is a real crowd pleaser.

Amazing!

That's right. There were no aluminum nailhead engines.

Not a big deal but I believe that the Olds version of the 215 was used in the "Jetfire" rather than the "Starfire." The Starfire was the top-of-the-line version of the 88 series. All of them had a 10.25:1 compression 4-barrelled 394 V-8.