The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Frame crack and removing rivets

Is it wise to remove the rivets of the frame in order to be able to reach to every sq. inch of the metal with sandblast? See pics with rivets on cross member. Also, notice the crack. It would be easier to fix it if rivets are removed. Can this be done and assembled back with bolts? Will it have the same strength as rivets. If so, which should be a proper torque setting for bolts and what grade? Thanks for the help. Frame crack and rivets

From the pictures, I can't see any reason to remove anything. Clean it up real good, straighten out that dent, "V" out the crack and weld. It's tight, but doable... IMO, anyway but I'm sure someone will be along shortly to disagree.

To me that's a very serious crack running completely through the frame top to bottom. Removing any attached support would be a mistake I think because it may cause frame alignment issues.If it's repairable,I would only add that boxing the channell there would help too.

Would not unnecessarily remove rivets, they're a pain to put back in. If I had to remove some I would rerivet them, not use bolts.
If you insist on using bolts get flanged frame bolts and nuts, I get them from the local big truck parts place, they usually have to order the small ones but have big ones on hand.

That crack is a serious problem, I'd suggest you sandblast around it and take it to a professional welder for repair.
I would not box the frame there, I'd consider a smallish plate welded inside over the crack once repaired, but a quality repair shouldn't need it.

Grigg

I was thinking of frame flex when I suggested boxing, but I agree a properly welded plate would work too if needed.

I'd vee the crack, drill a small hole at the end to stop the crack, and weld it.

It looks like something hit that area and dented it like that.
What gives the frame its beam strength is those upper and lower flanges. Someone I think mentioned drilling a hole at the end of the crack, good idea helps spread the stress and stop the cracking process. It will be hard to fix that and hide the fix. Personally if it is going to be a driver, and not just sit in a museum. The option I would use would be to properly weld the crack with of course straightening the flange etc. then find another frame section that is smaller to fit inside that frame rail, and bolt it in, and weld it, just look at the way outfits like Kenworth double frame their trucks. That will give you the strongest repair.

I work at a steel structure shop, so I guess welding might not be an issue, I can always beat the crap and fire the welder if it is not properly done That's why I was more concerned about the idea of the rivets. Where do you find rivets these days? Should they be installed hot and used a riveter like old fashioned steel building erection? Now on the welding topic, any idea of the type of material the frame should be in order to use the proper filler metal. If the repair is fully penetrated (I can check with an X-ray), did I need the reinforcement anyway? Thanks for the insight.

Where to find rivets
http://www.rivetsinstock.com/
http://www.hansonrivet.com/
www.McMasterCarr.com

Yes, they should be done hot with a rivet hammer like in the old days.
I've done a few dozen between two different vehicles, it can be sort of fun but is a lot of work and setup too. Not something you'd do unless you absolutely have to, so if you can avoid removing good original rivets you'd be better off.

Grigg

Guess I won't remove anything that is not necessary. Regarding the frame material, any idea?

You can use grade 8 or better bolts if need to. Rivets I wish I knew where to get them and the dies.

The steel, Not sure but I would think any 70 KSI filler rod would be fine. And since you are around welding I'm sure you know its not the weld that is the problem but the surrounding metal, thats why I recomend the added strength, if its not going to be used to haul a load then it should be fine. I guess if it was me, and since I like strictly stock, I'd go with just the weld and keep an eye on it.

I found the dies and an Ingersoll Rand rivet hammer on craigslist, and I think there are always some listed on ebay from an air tool rebuilder.
Previously I made my own rivet set and bucking bar and used an air chisel/hammer but it's more difficult than using the right tool, the small ones just don't hit hard enough to do the job like it should be done, although it can work if you're determined and have some practice.

Grigg

Somebody pointed the shop manual and it actually says to use 6012 electrode and only use stick method. Did MIG wasn't available back then? Were they refering to stick opposed to oxy-fuel welding?